Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
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deacon
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Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by deacon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:38 pm

First post on the forum; really looking forward to everyone's input since I've been watching, reading, learning over the years as I've been executing on a recent restoration of a 20' Shamrock for my son and planning this bigger project, the conversion of a 25 Bert to center console.

Clearly, MBiggerstaff and Daytrip have time into similar ventures, which I admire greatly.

So, now that I've finished my 2nd boat for my son (first was a whaler for my daughter), I'm moving into execution mode on the Bert in a couple weeks once my new workshop becomes available...

Background: I bought this Bert hull from a very nice man who wanted to pass on the project. He'd done some excellent and time-consuming work already, but seemed to reach and end point. He will be one of the first I take out in this boat when I finish. In regard to target, I'm set on it being a center console, hard top (with some thoughts on short tower setup) with a bracket and twin OBs. Planning on doing a bracket tied into stringers much like MBiggerstaff and Daytrip but I had also looked at Hermco and alternatives (Porta-bracket... nixing since I'll need the flotation). Aiming to place a 20gal fresh water tank in the bow for ballast and back-to-dock washdown. The odd requirement is that I plan to build a rather large center console (5' wide and forward much like a coffin box) with room below for storage, porta-potty, etc. Yes, I know they rarely get used and the bow of this boat is not likely a happy place in rough seas, but nevertheless, the plan is to include.

At this point, I need to make a rather critical decision. Knowing some issues in the past with stringer delam via polyester resin, I'm wondering if anyone would advise removing and reseating stringers with epoxy. I don't see any delam issues, but I'm a bit apprehensive to move forward and then a few years down the road I have issues and have to repair. If anyone would be so kind to share your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance!

Deacon

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Jeff
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by Jeff » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm

deacon, Welcome to our Builders Forum!! I assure you that you will receive good guidance from builders who have the experience to help you!! Just wanted to welcome you and I look forward to following your project!! Jeff

DAYTRIP
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by DAYTRIP » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:12 pm

Nice! Love the 25. My console is 58 wide and 84 long I think. You are welcome to take a look at it. You need weight forward for sure. In my case about 1000 lbs. water is cheap and variable. Anything I can help with just ask. I would look closely at the stringers before you get to far. Easy to tab them in now vs later.

There was a guy near me that did something the I considered. He built a console like you have drawn on the back of the vberth. It didn’t give you the walk around capability but it looked excellent. Had 2 150 Yamaha 4strokes. Ran great. Boat was stollen at some point.

deacon
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by deacon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:55 pm

Thanks Jeff, Daytrip.

Glad to get the #s on the console... gives me perspective... my plan is super long- 104". Hopefully, that'll compensate for some of the forward weight factor, minimizing ballast. Hoping to drive some weight across the whole platform with a heavier sole... perhaps using marine ply for bulkheads and floor supports rather than my earlier plan for Coosa would be advantageous as well.

Some other details as I see them:
- power- way early, but planning on the weight of twin 175 four strokes... while 150s are probably good, I'm counting on wanting that extra power for the efficiency at cruise, crutching back on one factor, etc, etc.
- stringers- seriously thinking I'll grind out and use epoxy. Is there another way you can think of gaining that assurance without a wholesale removal and replacement? I can't.
- fuel- two 67 gal tanks a bit forward of COB
- raised console- 7" boost for short guys like me
- insulated fish box- astern of live well / tackle station

Funny you mentioned that off-vberth console... I had sketched something similar to what you describe early on along with some more express options, but shifted to full walkaround after settling on how she'd be fished a majority of the time.

Thanks for a nice welcome guys.

Jeff
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by Jeff » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:10 am

deacon, sounds like you are very well planned!! I agree with you that a walk-around is the right move if fishing is in her future!! Again, welcome and we look forward to watching your build!! Jeff

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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by DAYTRIP » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:27 am

A couple thoughts for what they are worth. I would look at the factory boats that had inboards for balance starting point. They really seamed to used the volume of the boat well. The I/o boats sat a bit low in the Stern. I would really think about taking 7” of depth out of the cockpit personally. Jacques would be best to comment on weight but what I have found is at rest I need as much as possible forward but one running the bow being lighter feels way more comfortable in terms of control. I am not selling water ballast but it did have the benefit of getting off the boat while running which was an unexpected benefit. I then use tabs to adjust.

On the stringers I would just take a close look then decide. Lots of people go nuts on rebuilds, myself included, and it may not be required. I think most of these rebuilds end up way stronger than they ever needed to be. That said I would likely retab them given it is a known problem. I have found anything that was glasses is fine while anything with putty is not.

deacon
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by deacon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:21 am

Daytrip, funny you come up with 7"... I calculated 8" that I'll take away from the helm area last night to shift forward and looking at some additional opportunity to do so in the tackle center, perhaps I'll gain a bit over a foot in all which would yield a 5.5-6" depth in the cockpit. Agree wholeheartedly on running bow lighter for handling, tab manipulation, bow steer avoidance and since the boat traditionally ran bow proud ... just trying to perfect as much as possible without shifting over the threshold into a design the hull wasn't meant for (although I doubt I'll get too much weight forward in this design). I'll restructure my rudimentary cad design and see how it sits in my mind.

You're probably right on the stringers and potential overkill. I'm on the fence but would love to feel comfortable just cleaning up everything as a first step, inspect very closely and, if all looks well, retab with 3-4 layers if that's what is recommended. Probably need to share some closer pictures and such after cleaning up.

If time allows, looking forward to any thoughts Jacques and team may have regarding cautionary considerations and retabbing. I'll be ordering some materials soon to get prepared for my start date, TBD of course with a 7 and 4 yr old. I am committed, however, or commitable... certainly debatable :)

Thanks again!

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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by cape_fisherman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:53 pm

If you're down to the stringers, you could always replace structure at the rear of the hull with foam boards (you don't need coosa for bulkheads...divinycell works fine) and use ply up forward towards the bow. You can even do this with the sole. Use lightweight material close to the stern (where the beam is at it widest & the weight savings will be at it's greatest), and use ply forward towards the bow. You can shift your weight around in this way without the use of extra ballast.

Of course, the smaller the boat the more difficult it is to get a benefit from lightweight materials...but a 25' Bert isn't that small. I'd at least try it if you were willing to use some foam products.
Last edited by cape_fisherman on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

deacon
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Re: Bertram 25 CC w/Twin OBs

Post by deacon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:58 pm

Thanks Cape Fisherman. I’m appreciative of and absorbing all feedback and just trying to gain confidence in the plan. So be it... Divinycell for stern bulkheads and supports; marine ply midships and forward, including console... will likely follow suit on the sole with honeycomb perhaps and ply forward. I’m going to calculate some weights and such with those expectations and then go forward.

Thank you,

Deacon

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