23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

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magoo_za
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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:38 am

magoo_za wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:20 pm
fallguy1000 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:06 am
It looks fine, but I would not use foam for the stringers unless I was going to

A. Use a 26#/cuft foam or higher density and 3 layers of tape
or
B. Use more glass than you show. I would use 125 oz if the foam stringer is mostly a form. I would runnthe tapes longest first (5) and run them 220mm, 180, 140, 100,80
or
C. Use ply and 3 layers of tape.

I prefer longer tapes first when I glass. It entrains less air when consolidating, so I actually like the fact you glassed all the way to the aft BH. I am less concerned about your overall layup and more concerned about the side view which you don't show.

On the sides, they look good, but I would skip the small UD on the exterior to avoid a fairing hump and again go longest first to simplify fairing and avoid sanding through longest bonds during fairing. I would prefill/prefair the join area with thickened epoxy with some milled glass and of course removal of gelcoat is mandatory. You can prefill right before glassing no cure needed. That way any imperfection won't be a void and it will all bond as a unit.

If you want to show me a side view of the layup of the bottom and I can critique. That was my bigger worry, but only because I assumed you were butting to the old hull.

I am not a naval architect, but have an experienced sense of glass strength. Glass is pretty flexible at 75 ounces. It crosses a threshold for my intuition at around 125. So for a light foam form, I would want the 125 or 5 layers of 1708 or 850quad. But I might be inclined to use ply like the existing stringer for continuity. Your stringers end at the transom iirc, and they will never see water while you own the boat as your work is too good and layers too many.
Thanks for the comment. I will take some pictures tonight after work of the sides. Spent last night shaping the strongback out of 3x18mm Marine Ply which I will laminate tonight before pasting and glassing it in.

I think you have a valid point with the stringers. Will see when I can get more ply to build them out of ply rather that foam. I can re purpose the cut foam as cleats elsewhere.

I do enjoy this forum. So many things a. Novice has to consider and so many things that could go wrong. Awesome!
I am in a different conundrum with this stringer material issue.........

Considering polyester resin's poor chemical bonding to wood and the, even worse bonding of polyester to epoxy, proves I have an issue.

All I can do in the current circumstances is to tape it heavily.....I will see how this goes.



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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by Fuzz » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:31 pm

Just a little food for thought and my personal experience. Long before I started using epoxy, which is better for sure, I built three different boats using iso. In each case I glassed the wood stringers heavy enough that the wood was really just a form. A couple years ago I rebuilt a 21 foot open boat and took it down to pretty much a bare hull. The transom was not glassed very heavy and it was exposed to water in places. Transom was rotten. The stringers were a different story. They were dry and as sound as when they were installed. If you really look at most boats with rotten stringers you will see sloppy glass work and places where the water got in. Epoxy would not have stopped this from happening if the work had been as bad. This is just my opinion and others may feel different.

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:33 pm

Images of the sides. When I cleaned and tapered the existing hull, no matter how much I sanded I could not get through the colour on the inside. I suspect that gelcoat or paint or whatever was used, was mixed in with resin. The exterior need to be sanded back a lot more, which will be done in due course. My approach is to start the overlap narrow and go wider as I add additional layers.

20200114_190800.jpg

I attached 3 images, but for some reason none is displaying correctly? I will retake the photos again.
Last edited by magoo_za on Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:35 pm

Fuzz wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:31 pm
Just a little food for thought and my personal experience. Long before I started using epoxy, which is better for sure, I built three different boats using iso. In each case I glassed the wood stringers heavy enough that the wood was really just a form. A couple years ago I rebuilt a 21 foot open boat and took it down to pretty much a bare hull. The transom was not glassed very heavy and it was exposed to water in places. Transom was rotten. The stringers were a different story. They were dry and as sound as when they were installed. If you really look at most boats with rotten stringers you will see sloppy glass work and places where the water got in. Epoxy would not have stopped this from happening if the work had been as bad. This is just my opinion and others may feel different.

Thanks Fuzz. I am truly concerned about the issue......

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:05 am

Catastrophy struck!!!!!! One of the brake pad springs broke on my trailer resulting in the boat moving about 10cm and in the process the cradle supporting the hull extension was completely deformed........ I was in so much shock that I did not take pictures of the actual damage to the supporting cradle and stripped of that which did not fall off.

The result however looks like this.......

20200114_200523.jpg

I have a self supporting extension!!!!!!! I have braced the wheels with stops to prevent the incident from repeating and only momentarily left the new extension unsupported. A temporary brace was added which I will align properly tonight after work. Looking at the levels and measurements I could not find any movement in the structure whatsoever though........

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by Fuzz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:32 am

Sorry about the slight miss step but the good news is now you know the extension is not going to fall off :wink:

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:29 am

Fuzz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:32 am
Sorry about the slight miss step but the good news is now you know the extension is not going to fall off :wink:
:D

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by Browndog » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:17 am

I’m admiring your work.

Sorry to hear of your set back.

I’ve never rebuilt a boat, but will be starting on a rebuild project this year after having built five boats from scratch.

It seems that rebuilding a boat is tougher in a lot of ways than starting from the beginning. Or perhaps different challenges. Not knowing what was used to build it in the first place makes it harder too.

Keep it up.

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by fallguy1000 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:22 am

The good news is there was no load on it.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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Re: 23 ft Hartley Cabin boat repair/rebuild and hull extension

Post by magoo_za » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:27 am

Browndog wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:17 am
I’m admiring your work.

Sorry to hear of your set back.

I’ve never rebuilt a boat, but will be starting on a rebuild project this year after having built five boats from scratch.

It seems that rebuilding a boat is tougher in a lot of ways than starting from the beginning. Or perhaps different challenges. Not knowing what was used to build it in the first place makes it harder too.

Keep it up.

Thanks you for the compliment. i am trying my best and consider every comment made with thought. So many guys in the forum has so much experience to offer and advice is appreciated. You are indeed right by saying that rebuilds are tough. Every step is a learning curve for me and I have made numerous mistakes no matter how well I thought I was prepared. My lack of experience is showing in my planning and quantities. At least comments from members allows you to correct before major mistakes are made.

Best of luck with your project!

Cheers

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