Texas LB22

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Dougster
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Post by Dougster » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:00 pm

My God what are Texas size crappie doing up in Washington? Good point on the ply--gotta be marine. Think I'll stick with a chunk of wood. I'll build Jacquess keel, which is 8 1/4" at it's biggest, and was wondering if the 7 1/2" would be "close enough". Guess your right, I'll call around. I don't know my purple heart from my purple haze (well, that's not quite true 8)) but a few calls are surely worth it. Hate to beat up a hundred dollar bill and just get a keel, but will if need be. If the white oak is the best I can do, what do you think about epoxy sticking to it well? I saw your post on the interior glass, whether to piece it together or get more. Sure is nice having you ahead of me and getting the answers first :) Gonna be hard for me to catch up, although come summer I only work one day a week so I'll be out of excuses then.

Needs a big chunk of wood Dougster



TomW
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Post by TomW » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:49 pm

Dougster, white oak when properly used is one of the hardest, most useful woods used in boat building(OLD IRONSIDES). Having used a lot of oak I don't know why epoxy would not stick to it, all my other glues do. Sand it with 80 grit and go with it. Make sure the grain is straight, and the color is the same throughout, ie. heart grain, same with any wood, you do not want it twisting on you, the advantage of using plywood with a fiberglass cover.

Tom
Good fishing and red skys at night sailors delight
C17ccx, Mirror Dinghy

Dougster
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Post by Dougster » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:00 pm

Ah, thanks Tom. I didn't check the piece out I was quoted. I will tomorrow, as I work that morning right by the yard (odd coincidence). If it's straight, seems ok to me. Otherwise, I would go ply, but that's a 4 hr. one way drive to Houston on my day off :( (i.e. not gonna happen probably). Anyway, one issue is the 7 1/2" vs 9 1/2" when Jacque wants a big boy eight and a quarter inches. Unless I hear otherwise, I'll go with Jacque.. Thirty bucks one way or the other doesn't really mean much I guess.

Purple Haze or Purple Heart; feelin' it Dougster

Oceola
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Post by Oceola » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:58 am

Dougster,
I looked at the profile view of the LB-22. Looks like the keel/skeg tapers from 0" forward to the 9 1/2" at the transom. Couldn't you take the cut off piece forward, turn it around and epoxy glue it on top of the back end of the keel to give you enough height. Oak keels on large old plank and frame boats were usually built up of many layers this way but they were through bolted as well as glued.
As for using Oak for an epoxy covered keel, I don't know. Tom is right, the wood is hard and takes regular glues well, but I'm not sure about epoxy.

For what it's worth. In Devlin's book, Devlins Boat Building, he Writes: "Oak. ...is medium to heavy in weight, has high strength, and is potentially durable--though sometimes I have seen this wood rot with frightening speed....(reason given...when it was harvested) ....The glueability of white oak has been questioned, but I have never had any trouble. As with teak, it's best to wipe down white oak with acetone and a clean rag before gluing".

Frank
Craftsmanship means no wrinkles in your duct tape.

Dougster
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Post by Dougster » Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:25 am

Oceola--thanks for the input. I believe you quoted the passage I was "mis-rembering"! Fine example of a little knowledge being worse than none. I should have thought to check my Devlin book which is well thumbed. And I don't know why I didn't realize layering up a bit of the cut off would be fine to get the specified width at the stern. I'll check out the 7 1/2" width piece at lunch today to see if it's straight--don't want to deal with any warp or cup. I could always drive to Houston (3 hours) and pick up a sheet of ply, and be sure of straight, no cup, no warp. Maybe get some good Bar-BQ on the way back :)

Likes his 'Q Dougster

Spokaloo
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Post by Spokaloo » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:24 am

Huh, as I was reading I was going to suggest cutting the taper and adding it for depth... covered.

Oak as a building wood... too slow.

Don't you have some 9mm scrap from your frames Doug? Itd be pretty easy to laminate up a 12' x10" blank out of 2 layers.

From Greg Rossel's BUILDING SMALL BOATS:

"White oak-- a top notch boatbuilding wood. Heavy rugged, takes fastenings well...

For all purposes white oak should be well seasoned, as it shrinks a good deal in the drying process...

White oak has a closed cell structure that inhibits teh intrusion of rot-promoting fresh water. It does not glue particularly well, esp with epoxy.

A good choice for backbone members: stem, keel and deadwood."

I know many people who have successfully glued white oak, and there are anectodes of it not sticking so well.

Curious to see how it works....

E

TomW
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Post by TomW » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:46 pm

Dougster, one thought I had also, is in older days keels like this were screwed to the boat for strength. Have you given any thoughts of doing this from inside or does the lamination schedule prohibit this. Maybe Jacque can give an insight, I know he does not like screws in other parts of his boats.

Tom
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C17ccx, Mirror Dinghy

Oceola
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Post by Oceola » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:12 pm

Huh, as I was reading this I remembered Jacques does not like screws in his boats...
covered.

If the oak is "dry", (ask) is straight, has the grain orientated so it won't warp in the future and you decide to use it, could you use dowels epoxied in from the inside, say every foot or so???

Frank
Craftsmanship means no wrinkles in your duct tape.

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jacquesmm
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Post by jacquesmm » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:19 pm

Check the Gougeon book (WEST system epoxies), they say not to use oak because it is the only wood that has compatibility problems with epoxy.
As for screws, why since epoxy bonds better than any screw?
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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TomW
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Post by TomW » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:29 pm

Jacque, just went through the West System Manual. This was in there Special Preparations for Various Materials section.

Hardwoods - sand with 80 grit sandpaper.

Teak/oily woods - wipe with acetone 15 minutes before coating.

There is nothing more in this section mentioning oak. :?

I could find nothing in the System 3, The Epoxy Book.

Tom
Good fishing and red skys at night sailors delight
C17ccx, Mirror Dinghy

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