AD 14 KIELGE

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gonandkarl
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by gonandkarl » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:29 am

Hi,
Yesterday I fibre glassed PS bottom and side with the help of my wife who stirred the epoxy while I did the wetting out and put peel ply over it. After 20 hours and at 20 degrees celsius reached with the gas heater I removed the peel ply and have a few small mistakes which need a bit of sanding and some more epoxy. There is unfortunately one air bubble at the bottom near the transom which I have to sand off ( 7 cm diameter ) completely and replace the hole with a piece of fibreglass and epoxy. I had 6 lots of 310 gram resin prepared for mixing but in the end it was not enough so I got hectic and had to weigh out another 310 grams and apply it. Lesson learned for the SB bottom and side to prepare 14 cups and to take even more care to remove air bubbles and that it is evenly wet all over after working with a squeegee on the peel ply. Another thing is one should not leave the scene when one thinks one is finished because the one big bubble developed later while the resin was curing. If I would have stayed in the boat shed I could have repaired it as it developed. Here are a few pictures:

Peel ply still on:
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Peel ply half removed:
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All peel ply removed:
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And here the big air bubble:
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Hope to have the starboard side also finished in a few days.
Greetings from Karl


All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

Jaysen
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by Jaysen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:53 am

You make a pretty compelling case for the use of peel ply!

Despite of the bubble that looks really good. Congratulations on getting that out of the way. I'm sure the repairs will be easy.

terrulian
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by terrulian » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:03 am

That bubble would have put me in a bad mood, after all that nice work. Inanimate chemicals and cloth conspiring against me! :cry: :| :?

I didn't use peel ply but did try mylar on the hull, which wasn't successful since it doesn't like curves in three dimensions, and on the seats, since they were flat. In the end, I still had to do quite a bit of sanding. At first the cloth and epoxy appeared to come out like plate glass and I was chuffed, as they say in England. The photo below shows what the glass looked like immediately after the epoxy kicked and the mylar was removed. The white splotches are not smudges, they are reflections of the microballoon mix on the sides.
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However, the reason a lot of sanding had to be done was that where the mylar comes to an end around the edges of the seats and meets the vertical sides, there remained a seam. This had to be faired out, requiring no small amount of time. In addition, it turned out to be quite difficult to get the mylar perfectly flat. I used a hard roller to squeeze out out the epoxy in the glass, so it migrated to the top under the mylar (leaving enough saturation) and created the glass-like surface. I don't remember the weight but the mylar was pretty heavy. But there still remained what you could call very gentle waves--just as on the sea on a perfectly calm day, there are still undulations in the surface.

Now, the pros know how to use both peel ply and mylar and get amazing results. However, I am not a pro. Peel ply and mylar are both expensive and in the end, for a newbie like me, I found the mylar didn't save me much work and I think the same would have been true of peel ply. Other builders have reported great success, but they are mightier men than I am.

Speaking of which, do we have at least one or two mighty women in this august group?
Tony
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gonandkarl
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by gonandkarl » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:01 pm

Hi Tony,
I am most probably as talented as a boat builder like an elephant in a china shop and read about all help and view everything on the forum and elsewhere to overcome my non talent. That is why I liked peel ply since it was mentioned here on the forum and I have used it always hoping I save myself some sanding time and use less epoxy by working on it with a squeegee achieving a 50 percent fibreglass percentage. But I am still learning how to use it. I feel a bit of improvement is there since my first peel ply usage when I was completely nervous and could not sleep the night beforehand. But to work as casual and confident with peel ply like knottybouys on his video without any air bubbles will be a dream for me or achieving the quality like glossiblack on his Skinnydip wont happen on my boat. But I think positive and tell myself I would have had much more air bubbles if I had not used peel ply. My mistake this time was that I did not weigh the already cut glass before wetting it out with epoxy. This would have given me the exact glass area. I used glass with 300 grams per square metre and from the weight I could have deducted a correct length and width knowing the area and would have been able to prepare the correct resin quantity for my desired 50 percent penetration. I just measured roughly the width and length of the laid out glass on the hull with a roll metre and that was too inaccurate for a correct preparation of resin in the cups and that is why I panicked when I had to weigh a seventh lot of resin and consequently I produced the mistakes towards the end. My idea to let not only my wife but also my daughter ( was sick on the day ) stir the resin was just a plan but it is not necessary. One person can easily stir the resin that the other is putting on the boat. I am looking forward to do the starboard side with all this in mind and it might then be my first perfect application of resin with the help of peel ply. I dont mind that it is costly as long I believe it helps me overcome my doubts and self confidence to be able to work with my clumsy hands and have eventually a sail boat. 40 Years of being a white collar worker leaves its marks where the thinking about any project was always more present than that someone has to do the work realizing the project being computer software absolutely nothing tangible and dumped after a few Years for ever. Now I do everything the thinking and the realisation of the project sail boat and that is why I enjoy every moment building this boat knowing by now that I am coming close to splashing time and that it will not sink. The next boat I build I want to use the from you mentioned Mylar. When that time comes I will bombard you with questions about it. Maybe then I come closer to perfection which I think you achieved on your V10. What still puzzles me how you corrected any mistakes you made so, that one cannot see that there was any mistake or that is has been done over and over again like your beautiful fillets or your paint jobs.
Most probably Friday this week I will tackle the starboard bottom and side glass fibre and then I only need to sand, fair, graphite epoxy, paint, flip, mount the centreboard, fit the cleats and push pits, fit the boat to the trailer and sail it for the first time.
Greetings from Karl
All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

terrulian
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by terrulian » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:17 pm

Karl, thanks for the very kind words.
I think most of us, even Cracker Larry, spend more time contemplating jobs than actually doing them...but one place this was not the case with me was the fairing on the interior fillets, which just took hours and hours of doing them over and over until they seemed passable. I didn't have much thinking to do on that, just hand sanding forever.
Another place was paint and varnish. I tried as many different methods of application as I could come up with and in the end got a result I was pleased with--but just by the skin of my teeth. In other words, even on the very last coat--the only one anyone sees--I was aware that one little screwup and I'd have to start all over. However NOW, if I ever build a boat again, I know how to put paint on. In fact, we painted our Catalina 22 with the same paint and I had it down. It looked good right away. I have taken some satisfaction in seeing professionals on You Tube who end up with paint and varnish no better than mine.

Still would have trouble with the fillets, though, despite all the numerous tricks suggested by other builders.

I realize that since many of us are beginners in various aspects of the build, the pros and more experienced builders will be able to achieve better results in 1/4 the time. But learning new things and techniques is part of the wonder of the whole process, and seeing something that you've struggled and struggled with finally reach a stage you can call good enough is about as satisfying as things get. I know I was a little obsessive. That isn't typically my nature, but I really enjoyed the process and don't regret a minute of all that fairing and sanding. Of course, I built a very small boat. :lol:
Tony
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pee wee
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by pee wee » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 pm

gonandkarl wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:01 pm
My mistake this time was that I did not weigh the already cut glass before wetting it out with epoxy. This would have given me the exact glass area. I used glass with 300 grams per square metre and from the weight I could have deducted a correct length and width knowing the area and would have been able to prepare the correct resin quantity for my desired 50 percent penetration.
Karl, I think there is one other factor that could have resulted in your coming up short on resin, and that is the amount that is absorbed into the plywood. I don't know how to figure that amount, but it is in addition to the 50% you need for the fiberglass. If you begin by painting the wood with resin, and then lay the glass down, you can separate the calculations. It also might make laying out the dry fiberglass very hard to do, so many builders just let the resin soak through the glass into the wood. Easier, but it confounds the calculations. It also can cause dry areas because after you walk away the wood might continue to absorb resin.

I enjoy watching the progress on your boat, and seeing the care you put into each step.
Hank

gonandkarl
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by gonandkarl » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:36 am

Hi,
Thanks for your responses it boosts my ongoing determination towards the goal a lot. The handicaps I have remain and that is I am getting old ( ->71 ) at 5 foot 10 weighing 264 pounds and my clumsyness is my only sickness or as my wife calls it are you suffering again of dropsy. But as the German author Goethe lets the angels say at the end of Faust : Who always is conative striving we can redeem which was my maxim all my life and that is how my grown up kids always jokingly ask what I am busy trying to achieve next after boats, oyster mushrooms in the cellar or the carport for the boats trailer. They dont know yet that after I finish the carport it will serve as a boats lift as well like I have seen in Florida. But that is still future music because I have dug only 4 holes for the car ports foundations and the last 2 are the challenge because they are exactly at the place where I cut 2 old trees and now I have to dig out the roots. You see when you are a boat builder you dont get bored or have too much time.
Greetings from Karl
All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

Aripeka Angler
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by Aripeka Angler » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:18 am

Nice looking work Karl, I may have to test your peel ply technique.
Richard
Completed boats...XF20 "Red Alert", Aripeka Angler's Strip Canoe
Currently building...PY12 Kayak
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. - Loren Eiseley

gonandkarl
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by gonandkarl » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:16 am

Did you not use it on Red Alert underneath the mirrorlike finish I saw in Homosassa ?
All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

terrulian
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Re: AD 14 KIELGE

Post by terrulian » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:19 am

Karl, with apologies, the Faust quote is "Who ever exerts himself in constant striving, Him we can redeem."

Of course, when I wish to consider the wisdom of Goethe, I turn to the pages of Bateau.

In high school, I pronounced his named "go-thee"
Tony
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