AD16 Karenina

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Salvatore
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Salvatore » Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:29 pm

Did you notice the cable chain brace? I got the idea of exposed wood from Bondo. What I did is use a solid piece of timber 3/4 inch (18cm) thick and I placed the chainplate between the brace and the boat then I put SS skrews from outside the boat through the chain plate and into the timber, and glued it all together, it hides the chain plate and gives you a few extra degrees swing on the boom. :D

Ps: Did you notice that the top of the window runs parallel with the top of the cabin, I think it looks better, (It is not as per plan) It's not to late for you to make that change. I actually did it by mistake it was Bondo that noticed it.



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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by jacquesmm » Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:12 am

Corrected: my previous post was wrong, only twp of the windows edges is parallel to the panel side.
You have complete freedom there as long as you leave 2 or 3' along the edges.
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Stuff
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Stuff » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:10 pm

I did notice that Salvatore and was considering doing something similar. Can I ask why the 3/4 piece of wood? It seems like an overkill since the boat is designed with a step mast. Looking at your pictures it looks like you are doing a deck step for your mast, which might explain the stronger support.
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Salvatore » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:15 pm

3/4inch beacuse that is how wide the chain plate is, it is completly hidden between the bace and the haul, also it needs to be thick enough to take the SS skrews into the thickness of the brace. I used 2inch (50mm) 6gauge skews don't forget to drill a 1/8th (3mm) pilot hole into the wood to prevent it form spliting. The stronger support is for the deck stepped mast, I am still putting a pole in the cabin to help support the mast. one of reasons I am doing a deck stepped mast is because it will fit in the garrage with the boat, if storing the mast was not a problem I would have it as per plan.
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Stuff
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Stuff » Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:45 pm

After looking at your drawing i got a better understanding of what you were saying. It is very clever and I like it. 8) the only issue I have that you made them permanent. I know they're stainless steel but even stainless get corrode. What happens if they break for any reason. How you're going to replace them? By the way I know they are very unlikely to fail.
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Salvatore » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:44 am

Make sure the shrews are 316 grade and that you glass over them. We will be long gone before they fail

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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by jacquesmm » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:54 am

I have to look at the plans Monday to understand what that modification is about but in all cases:
- use through bolts not screws
- never cover SS with resin or paint, it will corrode. It must stay exposed to the air.
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by Salvatore » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:06 pm

I didn't know there was a conflict with SS and Resin :doh: , you learn somthing new everyday, thankyou for correcting me on that :)

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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by jacquesmm » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:49 pm

The steel becomes stainless because a thin layer of oxyde exist on it. If you keep the air from reaching the steel, it may degrade.
I don't know the details.
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ks8
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Re: AD16 Karenina

Post by ks8 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:18 pm

A good reason to inspect SS shroud terminations regularly too, especially if you wrap them tight with tape, as some do. :) I'm no metalurgist, but here's my little blurb. My limited understanding is that the SS does hold up better than steel, usually, resisting oxidation of the steel (rust), but in some situations, where air doesn't get to the SS, the chromium in the SS doesn't form or fully maintain the chromium oxide protective layer over the steel. I've got good 316 SS rusting a little already too. It should be rinsed with freshwater (oops) to get the salt off, and then as much of its surface as possible allowed to contact the air, if one would have it do its magic best. I have good SS screws in some yard furniture. I live very near the Gulf. The SS screws rust a little from the salt in the air, if not rinsed regularly with fresh water. Heavy keel bolts are generally not SS, but bronze -- partly, I imagine, because they mostly have no exposure to air, and or might be immersed in water in a wet bilge in some types of boats.

Next season I've got to pull out the embedded SS ubolt that my mainsheet attaches to on the CB trunk, and make sure it is still happy after being sealed up in that 4200 for a few years. Crevice corrosion can happen, but my install, I'm pretty sure was mostly moisture free. Now, I *say* that, but technically, 4200 cures from moisture in the air. Since it is cured for several years now, through and through, there *was* moisture in the bond. Soooooo .... even the SS fittings should be inspected regularly, at least minimally, moreso if offshore or otherwise mission critical. One might say that the mainsheet attachment is *mission critical* when sailing. :wink: The ability to inspect and re-bed is one of the reasons I prefer 4200, when possible, instead of 5200. 4200 comes off much easier, and is more of a bedding compound instead of an adhesive (like the more aggressive 5200). If you bed SS screws in 5200, to, say, install a teak bit of trim rail, that is different, as it is generally not structural and is not mission critical, and is acting double duty, as an adhesive also. If the SS screws ever do fail on a simple decorative trim rail, its just an inconvenience. The boat won't sink or lose power. :)

I also only *seal* the deck surface area of any through bolts (such as mounting bolts for hardware like cleats), and not the lower surface under the deck. If the lower surface is sealed with 4200 or something else, around the washer and backing plate, and the upper seal above deck ever fails, water gets in the hole on the bolt and can't get out. If the lower surface is NOT sealed, the worst that can happen is that you discover the upper seal needs fixing, because of a leak down below. I'd prefer a dripping as a warning, rather than no dripping and a failed through-bolt trapped in years of watery corrosion goop, as long as it isn't dripping on the electrical system. But everyone comes up with their own methods. These are mine, along with some of the *why*. :)

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