V12 Light Step

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ks8
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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by ks8 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:09 pm

Thanks CL. :) What a long bunch of trips this was! :?

Here she is next to her brother in the driveway... he's like real square man - ya know - like L7 - but cool daddio .... Image :lol:

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Last edited by ks8 on Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Cracker Larry
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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by Cracker Larry » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:17 pm

You sure do strap a load down tight and solid :D
Completed GF12 X 2, GF16, OD18, FS18, GF5, GF18, CL6
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ks8
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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by ks8 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:38 pm

It was well worth it. :D Only one gash on the top of the head from crawling under the trailer.. :x

I saw about 20 other tarped down loads on the road trip, everyone of them flapping and torn to shreds while hauling boxes and furniture through the downpours. :| Learned that one about thirty years ago. A cargo *net*, even as simple as these wrapped on by hand, makes all the difference. :) Got to buy the 3/16 inch rope bulk, or, UHaul was actually much less expensive than the big box stores. That's (14) 50 foot packs (and two spares that I didn't need). ouch. but lots of loose furniture under there, etc., very dry and road weatherproofed. This only had to do one trip of 730 miles, but now I have spare tarps for a rainy day. Of course, I can't unload yet because the sky is raining down here now. :lol:

The utility trailer wrap up has lasted about 9,000 miles at 55+ mph, without a rip. But I'm glad that's done! Now, the sun is starting to cause the orange to flake off it slowly. Time for a tent or two. :)


Cl,

the 95 - 295 - 10 - 301 - 27 - 75 route was about twenty miles shorter and nice, but about the same time because of the 301 and 27 intersections - less stress than the I-4 racetrack/parkinglot. The final time is tough to finalize though because I was only going about 53 in all the 70 stretches, to keep the tires cool. The cloudy weather helped much. Tires only topping out at about 110F during the day, averaging 105F. What a difference with no brutal sun on them, and the cooling rain. The utility trailer tires were more like 135F to 140F, at night.

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by Cracker Larry » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:33 pm

Do you actually take your tire temperature :?: 8O :lol:

Cl,
the 95 - 295 - 10 - 301 - 27 - 75 route was about twenty miles shorter and nice,


It's better if you skip the 295 and I10 part all together. Get off on the A1A exit to Callahan, pick up 301 and take it south. Pass under I10 and keep going. Skip all of the J-Ville and Orlando craziness.
Completed GF12 X 2, GF16, OD18, FS18, GF5, GF18, CL6
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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by peter-curacao » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:27 pm

ks8 wrote: now I have spare tarps for a rainy day. Of course, I can't unload yet because the sky is raining down here now. :lol:
8O huh! :doh: isn't that a boat under there??

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by ks8 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:07 pm

8O huh! :doh: isn't that a boat under there??
And loads of cardboard boxes, and furniture, and non-marine electronics and .... things that would not do well if they got soaked. Drove through some major storms. The boat itself was not the concern. And the way it was loaded, it would not have floated. :wink:

And its a frame of mind to consider too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUuID2ijD_A
Cracker Larry wrote:Do you actually take your tire temperature :?: 8O :lol:
Yes, on those trips, with those loads, certainly, and the hubs too, to ballpark check the bearings, and brake health. Simple IR temp gun. Takes one to two minutes to hit all 6 tires when stopped for a rest or fuel, or to eat. Had a brake stick once and smoke for a few miles. ANd a front brake rotor that would have turned water to steam, over 212F. Fortunately, no meltdown or tire devulcanization. Small sledge hammer and WD 40 in the right spots freed up the workings. And I drive different now, minimizing brake work when heavily loaded. Makes for better mileage too.

The poly belted tires in particular get very hot sidewalls from the flexing under heavy loads. They probably blow more than the steel radials, under heavy loads, but I'm no tire pro. You KNOW all the tire shreds on those roads, yes? :help: Because, I am told, folks over-run their tires in that hot sun, with heavy loads, going too fast for the loads in the hot sun on that hot road, often with under-inflated tires. I inflate to the maximum load bearing pressure, cold, before each trip. With trailer tires, that's usually 50 psi. They get a lot hotter and wear poorly if under-inflated. I've experienced what I've read, just short of a blow out, thankfully. These are 750 mile trips I've been making.

I was very happy with this last trip with the WESCO boat trailer. It ran solid and cool, and tracked true... just a little vertical oscillating on a few sections of 95 known for that. Slow down abit to get the tires and springs out of resonance with the road bumps, and all is fine again. The steel radials ran a lot cooler than the polys, and the clouds and rain sure helped too. :D

On one trip, the sun side poly tire on the utility trailer got well over 160F doing the limit (70). That's reaching into the uncomfortable region, if one hits a bad spot in the road. I stayed in the rest area and let them cool, and then slowed to 55. That kept them to 145-150F in the sun. Not bad when the road is near that temperature itself. And I usually do those runs at night, with tire temps another 20 degrees cooler. With the loads I've packed, I don't want to ever have to jack up the trailer, or worse, transfer and repack another vehicle. No regrets, especially when it just takes a minute or two to check all 6 wheel's bearings, treads, sidewalls, and brake rotors. Just like you religiously and seasonally changing your lower unit's oil, and the impeller, (and gasline filter?). :D I also greased up the trailer bearings well for this final trip. Those temps hovered at around 105 keeping it under 55 mph.

It only takes a minute or two to check those wheels. For a 750 mile run, why not, especially when max-loaded in trailer and tow vehicle? Folks put many miles on the road without ever checking, sure, but then, those tire carcasses all along the road ought to be saying something too. Surf the RV and trailer forums and you read *the stories*. And besides, its fun walking around shooting those temperatures, for peace of mind. Helps me shake off any lurking drowsiness too. Stretch the legs and brain for a few minutes. 8)

And that's enough of that. I've got a lot more unpacking and sorting to do. And a V12 should, in theory, be nowhere close to maxing out the trailer for it. The CV16 was too roomy. I just kept packing it full! :lol: That GF18 you're building must be one huge cargo tub, eh? :)

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by peter-curacao » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:35 pm

ks8 wrote:
8O huh! :doh: isn't that a boat under there??
And loads of cardboard boxes, and furniture, and non-marine electronics and .... things that would not do well if they got soaked. Drove through some major storms. The boat itself was not the concern. And the way it was loaded, it would not have floated. :wink:

And its a frame of mind to consider too...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUuID2ijD_A
Ah okay now I understand thanks
Image that video is hilarious, long time I saw that Joe vs the volcano movie 8)

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by ks8 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:27 pm

Classic :lol:

.. as a luggage problem.

I need to watch that (the whole movie) at least once a year, to keep perspective in several ways. :lol:

For some reasons I won't detail here, I can also relate to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zim3UtESCQ8

And hey! There's a sailboat in the movie... and a storm, and a ukelele, and the moon ... so it's clearly relevant. :lol:

Thanks again for the A1A tip CL. I missed that one and didn't want to turn around for it. As it was, 295 was clear and smooth, and 10 also, so it worked out well. But if I'm up that way again, I'll give A1A a try. :) I don't do 95 through J-ville anymore. It's terrible when hauling a trailer, unless they finished the construction? Still, too swervy with exits all over the place, on both sides, especially if one is driving slower than the rest of the traffic and has to keep changing lanes just to stay on 95. I suspect that many of those exits were afterthoughts and not the original plan. 295 is much more predictable - no surprises - maybe that's one reason why they added it - and the bridge is nice when taking the east side of the loop, even if its the longer route. But I went west this time to pick up 10 to 301. Got to pass the largest fireworks billboards in the world on 301 ... :lol:

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by peter-curacao » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:09 am

ks8 wrote:
For some reasons I won't detail here, I can also relate to this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zim3UtESCQ8
LOL Image I think we all can!

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Re: V12 Light Step

Post by Laszlo » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:05 am

ks8,

Please take this as helpful advice, not as a personal attack.

As someone who's built the V12 and been using it for a bit over 4 years, all I can say is - don't. Most of your proposed modifications would completely ruin a wonderful boat. While you are respecting the shear line and the shape, you are going to be adding significant weight and are counting on a stability that the boat does not have. The first will turn it into a dog, the second will get you wet.

The V12, according to a post by Jacques back in the early 2000's, was designed as a tender for North Sea anchorages. As such, it is meant to handle windy, choppy waters with significant waves. And I can verify that it does this beautifully. The combination of light weight and that elegant shear let it ride over waves that would swamp other boats. The only time I have ever had water come over the top was when I was pooped by a very large motorboat wake (in a supposedly wakeless zone). Even then, it was less than 1/2 gallon, easily ignored until clear of the motorized moron.

In the meantime, I've had it out on the Severn River by the US Naval Academy during a small craft advisory with the tide and river flow against a 28-knot wind. Motor boats were zooming up and down the center of the river. The wakes were spreading out across the river, the chop was up and down the river and the whole mess was hitting the USNA seawall and reflecting back out into the water. 3-foot waves with whitecaps. And the V12 just grinned and took it. No water came aboard, at all. It rode up on top of a wave, slid down between it and the next one, and rode back up on that. All the while it rolled with the side to side reflections. Total control, no water coming in. The waves were high enough that when I was in the trough, the water was above the shear in all directions. But the V12 always lifted up on the next wave in a very easy motion. No sense of danger or even imminent wetting.

So that's the behavior of the stock V12 in about the worst conditions a that a normal person would be out in. Now let's look at the proposed modifications.

High sole - presumably to facilitate self-bailing. Totally unneeded. If no water is coming in, why add weight and complication to get rid of it? The extra weight of the high sole would make the boat ride through the waves (instead of over them) and actually make the problem worse. A high sole would also raise the boat's center of gravity - first by adding material above the water line, second by raising the crew weight. It would also mess up the ergonomics for rowing unless a higher seat was used, which would exacerbate the CG problem. The net result is a heavier boat which would not ride as well, which would be less stable and harder to row.

Scuppers - Extra complication, not needed if the high sole is abandoned. No matter what you do with the gaskets, it'll never stay watertight, so it's an odd thing to put in if you're concerned about staying dry.

Open transom - Even more of the same. Again, the stock boat shape keeps the water out, no reason to ditch the back end of the boat and let it in there. Plus, the necessary floatation tanks would add weight and cramp the cockpit. Finally, unless you just wanted to make a water trap, you'd have to get rid of the aft seat support, which is a structural member. Compensating for that would be extra complication.

Deck & footwells - Besides the weight and complication, this also breaks another design assumption. That is, the boat is stabilized by moveable ballast, i.e., the crew. Most individual adults weight more than the stock V12 hull, so the stability depends a lot on the proper positioning of the crew. A deck would limit the crew's mobility. Sometimes that's a good thing, but other times it would prevent the fast shifting of weight in response wind and wave.

Fishing platform - If you're not a SUP expert, don't even think of this, especially not if there's even a hint of wave action. A good sudden strike will dump you in the water so fast it'll make your head (and the rest of you) swim.

Handholds and tarp tiedowns - These would actually work and add utility to the boat. Excellent idea.

Meranti vs. Okoume - I used okoume, covered the bottom with 6 oz glass and 3 layers of graphite/epoxy mix. The only place I had any problems was on the bottom of the skeg. I added a 1/2 round strip of brass and never had any issues again. I routinely beach it on mud, sand, asphalt, concrete, gravel and oyster shells. My recommendation is to go with the okoume for the lightness and the flexibility (that bow is a bitch to close, even with okoume).

So, in summary, the stock V12 is a very capable and dry boat. It achieves this through lightness and its shape. It's dry because of the simple open design, not in spite of it. It doesn't need all those modifications to keep it dry, and they would actually make it wetter, heavier, more expensive and slower to build. Trust Jacques.

Happy New Year,

Laszlo

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