Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

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fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by fallguy1000 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:25 am

Jaysen wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:13 am
The race boat requires outboard. I will be using petrol for the race boat for the reasons you state.

the electric discussion is for the long term "travel the world and grow old" boat. That's good 10+ years off at this point. By then there will be options.
When do you order parts and do you have the build site?


My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by Jaysen » Thu May 21, 2020 10:45 am

We are splitting build into 4 stages..
1. Frames: these will be built here in CHS in our "second bedroom"
2. Structure: This will be built at our home in Beaufort (transport frames to home)
3. Deck/Hull plating: this will be completed in Beaufort
4. Interior: this will be done in CHS on trailer

We are a bit of a delay on the build. I still have a job, but the pay took a hit. If I were to start the build today there is a high likelihood it would not be completed in a timely manner. We made the call to hold the build until we were certain that funding to completion (boat sailing but not race qualified) was 100%. We are funded to acquire the time sensitive components that are required for class compliance. I just don't think it's smart to start the build if I can't be sure I can afford to complete it.

For the record, we are viewing this boat as business, not pleasure. My goal really is to compete in the 2024 global so it is effectively a new career for me. As such we need to make sure we are setting up for success. That means treating this less like a hobby and more like a job. If I was building a VG26 for cruising, I'd already be making dust as there would be no deadline for completion.

Hope that makes sense.
Visit my official Class Globe 580 build blog at https://jaysenodell.com/globe-580
Currently starting a build of "Lil Bit More". A Class Mini 5.80
Class Mini 580 welcome post.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by terrulian » Thu May 21, 2020 11:00 am

Is this torqueedo style or inboard? Isn't drag of a prop and issue in the latter?
On a sailboat this is always an issue no matter whether you have electric propulsion or not. I once banged my folding prop on a reef and while it was being repaired I could swear my fixed prop was cutting a knot off my speed. This was probably an exaggeration. You can also use feathering props but I didn't opt for that because of expense and because the folding prop is much simpler mechanically.

Of course, you power boat guys don't really care too much about drag when the engine isn't running, I suspect.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by fallguy1000 » Thu May 21, 2020 11:13 am

terrulian wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:00 am
Is this torqueedo style or inboard? Isn't drag of a prop and issue in the latter?
On a sailboat this is always an issue no matter whether you have electric propulsion or not. I once banged my folding prop on a reef and while it was being repaired I could swear my fixed prop was cutting a knot off my speed. This was probably an exaggeration. You can also use feathering props but I didn't opt for that because of expense and because the folding prop is much simpler mechanically.

Of course, you power boat guys don't really care too much about drag when the engine isn't running, I suspect.
No, we do! If you run on one engine all day; the other reason to keep the other one down is tracking or windage issues. Otherwise, it is up to save pennies of fuel.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by terrulian » Thu May 21, 2020 11:16 am

Right, I hadn't considered dual screws. Duh.
You'd have to explain the tracking and windage to me.
So do you use folding props?
Tony
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by Netpackrat » Thu May 21, 2020 4:26 pm

terrulian wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:02 am
I don't know what "lobotomize" means in this context.
Mostly I meant that going electric for propulsion is building some more or less permanent severe compromise into the boat. There are a few sailors on YouTube who have gone electric... Most/all of them are completely gung ho about electric power, but if you actually watch the videos you'll see them have problems that wouldn't have occurred with diesel powerplants. At best you are paying a lot more for reduced range and performance, and at worst you are effectively engineless other than some minimal maneuvering capability for docking, etc. You can probably forget about things like canal transits or waterways where you have to motor a lot with no option to sail. A generator can make it better but then you are back to carrying fuel.

What seems to make more sense, is making the investment in lithium batteries for the house bank. With sufficient solar people have been able to do things like convert to electric stoves and get propane off their boats completely, and also reduce their frequency of needing to run their generator or auxiliary engine just to make power.

Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by Jaysen » Thu May 21, 2020 5:22 pm

I need to be a bit careful here as I’m touching some new tech.

The key thing as netpackrat mentioned is storage of energy. Current battery systems used density of material (read heavy metal) to store energy. There are new systems in development that store current tech power levels at a weight that is roughly 100:1. Meaning 1oz of new tech stores the same power as 100oz of current storage. And these new methods are dumb systems (unlike lipo which requires significant controls and cooling to the point they are as heavy as AGM).

By the time I’m ready to make the move to a non-fossil motivated hull, that tech will be widely available.
Visit my official Class Globe 580 build blog at https://jaysenodell.com/globe-580
Currently starting a build of "Lil Bit More". A Class Mini 5.80
Class Mini 580 welcome post.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

terrulian
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by terrulian » Thu May 21, 2020 5:44 pm

Remember that the Pardeys and Don Street were famous for engineless cruising, and many others have done it and are doing it. I'm not sure what if any electronics they used but they must at least have a radio and lights. We crossed the Atlantic without using our engine for propulsion as we had a compromised transmission/propshaft flange and since the repair would have required a machine shop, we didn't want to backtrack to address it. So we said, screw it, Columbus didn't have an engine. We only had one solar panel but with that ran lights, radar, HF radio, and the stereo all the way across, maybe charging once or twice with the engine. Adding a couple more panels, especially with more modern ones, along with a wind generator and a hydro generator and we could have done it easily.
Now, I'm not advocating what Street and the Pardeys did, and I don't think that's wise. But you really can do a lot without an engine in a sailboat, or with very minimal use, just for getting in and out of harbors. I'm doubtful you could do the canals without an engine but you might be able to arrange a tow at a hefty price.
So I don't look at electric cruising as ridiculous, especially 10 years from now with battery storage and solar/wind charging improvements.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by fallguy1000 » Sun May 24, 2020 5:37 am

Jaysen wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 5:22 pm
I need to be a bit careful here as I’m touching some new tech.

The key thing as netpackrat mentioned is storage of energy. Current battery systems used density of material (read heavy metal) to store energy. There are new systems in development that store current tech power levels at a weight that is roughly 100:1. Meaning 1oz of new tech stores the same power as 100oz of current storage. And these new methods are dumb systems (unlike lipo which requires significant controls and cooling to the point they are as heavy as AGM).

By the time I’m ready to make the move to a non-fossil motivated hull, that tech will be widely available.
What is it called so I can google it p&t.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Jaysen
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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Post by Jaysen » Sun May 24, 2020 9:11 am

NDA prevents me providing details beyond what I’ve already provided. For a current tech solution that improves on storage density and weight look at super capacitor systems.
Visit my official Class Globe 580 build blog at https://jaysenodell.com/globe-580
Currently starting a build of "Lil Bit More". A Class Mini 5.80
Class Mini 580 welcome post.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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