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Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:45 pm
by Jaysen
Most recent post... http://jaysenodell.com/globe-580/pine-or-oak

Starting to align a few loose ends on how to source things. I have access to a cabinet shop that can supply timber milled to the right dimensions. They are recommending white oak (proper white oak) as the cost for clear pine/cedar will be just as high. Running through the basic wood needs it looks like I'm going to be looking at the following for just the frames and stringers...

30x22 (1.25 x 7/8): 2700 (9')
40x22 (1.57 x 7/8): 1400 (5')
85x22 (3.35 x 7/8): 5200 (18')
50x22 (2.00 x 7/8): 26,860 (88')
70x22 (2.75 x 7/8): 1400 (5')
100x22 (3.93 x 7/8): 2160 (8')

On other fronts, the weight loss program is slow going. I'm working on strength training at the same time so the loss of fat is not showing up on the bottom line. I'm already seeing the need for smaller sized clothing so I'm on the right track.

That's pretty much it.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:29 pm
by terrulian
Those are the prices? Holey Moley.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:03 pm
by Jaysen
terrulian wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:29 pm
Those are the prices? Holey Moley.
No. Sorry. Left to right:
Metric size
Imperial size
:
Linear in mm
Linear in feet

I’m looking at about $4/board-foot for pine or white oak.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:21 pm
by terrulian
Whew! I was wondering just how rare white oak could possibly be since the last time I bought some. 8O :lol:

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:31 pm
by fallguy1000
Jaysen wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:45 pm
Most recent post... http://jaysenodell.com/globe-580/pine-or-oak

Starting to align a few loose ends on how to source things. I have access to a cabinet shop that can supply timber milled to the right dimensions. They are recommending white oak (proper white oak) as the cost for clear pine/cedar will be just as high. Running through the basic wood needs it looks like I'm going to be looking at the following for just the frames and stringers...

30x22 (1.25 x 7/8): 2700 (9')
40x22 (1.57 x 7/8): 1400 (5')
85x22 (3.35 x 7/8): 5200 (18')
50x22 (2.00 x 7/8): 26,860 (88')
70x22 (2.75 x 7/8): 1400 (5')
100x22 (3.93 x 7/8): 2160 (8')

On other fronts, the weight loss program is slow going. I'm working on strength training at the same time so the loss of fat is not showing up on the bottom line. I'm already seeing the need for smaller sized clothing so I'm on the right track.

That's pretty much it.
I would avoid using any more w.o. than needed. Stuff is really heavy. I can send you some. But most of mine is 3/4" thick. You'll have to pay the freight which may be a bit. W.O. tends to be cross grained. It is hard to mill perfectly. Most of my stuff is s3. I usually rerip the 4th side. Just let me know if you want any. 22 is not really a US measure. You will have to buy 5/4 which is basically going to be more money, yet. Then you'll have to mill to 7/8". I can check and see if I have any full inch..I mill everything to nearest best 1/8".

The pine story is similar.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:41 pm
by fallguy1000
Cedar clears are hard to come by.

Here are the lb/cuft weights

Western red cedar 23
Eastern white pine 25
Southern longleaf pine 41
White oak 47

As you can see white oak is twice the weight. White oak is rot resistant. If your boat keep can be adjusted for hull weights; then it probably doesn't matter. The cedar and wp are way nicer to machine.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:45 pm
by Jaysen
One of the driving forces here is availability. It is easy to find clear oaks. Not so much for pine. Certainly not at a reasonable price. That gets further complicated by the need to have 5/4 milled to non-standard US sizes. I’m hoping that the 40lbs estimated weight gain can be offset by a couple changes equipment/person. Hoping to meet with the supplier/mill in the next couple weeks and figure out if white oak is a viable option or not.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:26 am
by fallguy1000
Jaysen wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:45 pm
One of the driving forces here is availability. It is easy to find clear oaks. Not so much for pine. Certainly not at a reasonable price. That gets further complicated by the need to have 5/4 milled to non-standard US sizes. I’m hoping that the 40lbs estimated weight gain can be offset by a couple changes equipment/person. Hoping to meet with the supplier/mill in the next couple weeks and figure out if white oak is a viable option or not.
5/4 wrc is common as a deck board

When I wanted clear cedar for my strip canoe or anything; I went to a Menards and spent the day going through their deck materials. The only bad bit was the edges are rounded, so you have to rip them off. And not cheap nowadays. I can see if I have any full inch stuff around, but not too likely. Does the designer realize 7/8 wo and 7/8 wrc are nowhere near the same strengths?

If we use modulus of elasticity, for example, wo is 1762000 and wrc is 1110000. This translates to way more stiffness per unit area.

Modulus of rupture is 14830 for wo and 7500 for wrc or nearly double.

If you used a 7/8" wrc board, a 3/4 wo board is still stiffer and less likely to break under load, so the idea the designer would not accomodate a smaller wo board that still weighs more than its weaker competitor seems silly.

Have you asked? The 3/4 equivalent is 19mm. I suppose the problem arises in painting the wood; they all become equals. Or for certifications, he may need to certify optional structures. Then some jerkwad would use 3/4 wrc and paint it all for a weight advantage.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:52 am
by Jaysen
The 22mm is the minimum width for the one design racing. The build specifies pine. So I have to use the same dimensions but can use “stronger” materials as I desire. I just can’t reduce dimensions.

It’s going to come down to availability and price. The more the mill needs to hand sort and reject boards the higher the price. I’m trying to walk a line between “one design” and “low weight” and “cost effective”.

Re: Jaysen's Mini 580 plan

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:28 am
by fallguy1000
Jaysen wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:52 am
The 22mm is the minimum width for the one design racing. The build specifies pine. So I have to use the same dimensions but can use “stronger” materials as I desire. I just can’t reduce dimensions.

It’s going to come down to availability and price. The more the mill needs to hand sort and reject boards the higher the price. I’m trying to walk a line between “one design” and “low weight” and “cost effective”.
You ought to walk through a lumberyard and see what wrc decking looks like. Just my opinion. The wo I have here seems even heavier than the citation I gave. It and walnut are very heavy.