C12 - TL70 - Brazil

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Fuzz
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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by Fuzz » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:15 am

You are not the only one or the first one to glue a butt block on the wrong side. After putting one on the correct side just remove the wrong one how ever you have to. If you mess up the plywood some it is not that big of a deal. Epoxy and fillers can fix almost anything :D



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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:36 pm

piperdown wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 7:56 am
Did you place another butt block on the inside of the boat on the panel? If not, I would add the butt block on the inside and after it cures I would sand down the butt block on the outside hull.

Had to convert metric to inches...lol, 8 inches out of position frame. Not sure anyone but JM can tell you if you need another frame or to cut it out and re-position. The frames are structural AND are in locations to allow a boat that is fair.

If you don't have fiberglass tape, get what you can and cut it to the width and length you need. It is better to have long strips but if you cannot get long strips you can overlap the strips by a couple of inches (at least 5 cm but I'd go 6 cm).
Hi Eric, thanks for your feedback, and sorry for the inches conversion :(
Did you place another butt block on the inside of the boat on the panel? If not, I would add the butt block on the inside and after it cures I would sand down the butt block on the outside hull.
Regarding the butt blocks, we were considering keeping it like that. Integrating the external one in the design of the hull and reinforcing the inside with fiberglass and epoxy... would this have impact in the structure? because removing the wrong butt blocks looks quase impossible without damaging a lot the plywood...
Had to convert metric to inches...lol, 8 inches out of position frame. Not sure anyone but JM can tell you if you need another frame or to cut it out and re-position. The frames are structural AND are in locations to allow a boat that is fair.
Regarding the frame, we will wait for Jacques instructions... we don't feel really confortable in changing the structure of the boat ...
If you don't have fiberglass tape, get what you can and cut it to the width and length you need. It is better to have long strips but if you cannot get long strips you can overlap the strips by a couple of inches (at least 5 cm but I'd go 6 cm).
Thanks for the advice, we will do it as you suggest :D

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Fuzz wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:15 am
You are not the only one or the first one to glue a butt block on the wrong side. After putting one on the correct side just remove the wrong one how ever you have to. If you mess up the plywood some it is not that big of a deal. Epoxy and fillers can fix almost anything :D
Hi Fuzz,

We don't feel really confortable in removing the butt block as it really looks really glued, so we were thinking to sand it a bit as suggested by Eric and use it as part of the design of the hull...

Regarding the inside, as explained in the answer we have made to Eric, we were thinking of reinforcing it with fiberglass and Epoxy, as the shape of the boat looks pretty symetrical and aligned. In this case, we won't put a butt block in the correct side. Is it a wrong idea according to you?

Many thanks, and have a good week :D

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:10 pm

Hi everybody, we are facing a big rain period here in Sao Paulo so are waiting for a better weather condition to continue our built....

But we are thinking about the next steps and have few questions:

1- Regarding the inside fiberglass, from the fiberglass laminations orientations, we understood we have to cover all the inside and outside seams with fiber glass tape. However, we are not sure if it is also necessary to cover the rest of the inside with fiberglass fabric? or only the outside.
If fiberglass fabric is not necessary to cover the inside of the boat, how should we finalised the inside, with epoxy only? epoxy with wood flour?

2- we have an issue with the middle frame position, Jacques, if you see our message, could you kindly advice if it would be ok to add an extra frame in the correct position? The one we cut is 20cm in forward the right position :?

many thanks, a nice day to all

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by piperdown » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:47 pm

It will take a while to sand down the outside butt block but you really need to so that the boat is fair. Just a bit of time.

No worries on metric. I have the conversion in my head since at work I go back and forth between the 2.

I don't have the plans to the C12 so can't help with the fiberglass cloth lamination schedule. Send an email to Jeff and/or Reid at BBC and they can help with the this question.

Jacques is on vacation with very limited access to internet. Might be a while before he sees this question.
Eric (aka, piperdown)

"Give an Irishman lager for a month and he's a dead man. An Irishman's stomach is lined with copper, and the beer corrodes it. But whiskey polishes the copper and is the saving of him." --> Mark Twain

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:28 pm

Many thanks Eric, really clear explanation.

I will send an email to BBC team ;-) and wait for Jacques to be back to take the decision regarding our aditional frame ;-)

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by jacquesmm » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:53 pm

One thing at a time and let me know if I forget one.
Butt block: I don't have the plans with me but, in some cases, I use the butt block as a reinforcement. Look at your plans: if that butt block sits just under a frame, it is needed on the inside. In that case, the dimensions I show for the frame, take in account the thickness of the butt block.
If you can, add a butt block on the inside. If it is too late, if the frame is already fiberglassed, double the fiberglass tape there.
If the plans does not show the butt block under a frame, forget the inside butt block.

Whatever you do, that outside butt block is going to look weird. The boat will sail just as well but it doeas not look good. With a good gr=inder, you can grind ti down in a few minutes and add a layer of glass tape.

Dimensions: why do you need a conversion? The plans you receive are in imparial and in metric. Anyway, that is a minor problem.

I don't understand whihc frame is misplaced. but you can always add a frame. Whic frame is this?
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 am

Hi Jacques,

Many thanks for your answer.
Regarding the butt block, it is a butt block to assembly to pieces of plywood of the side panel. But it sits under the frame, so for sure we need to add an extra inside.

Regarding the metrics, yes, we have all the information in meters, but it was just to answer Eric, because for most of you, I guess, inches is more usual

Regarding the frame, we have realised that the one we done it correct... because it will be cutted in the middle to put the Center board trunk... that is the reason why it wasn’t fitted in the hull....

Today we will install and stitch the frames. And tomorrow, hopefully we will fiberglass the bottom of the hull.

We are still with interrogation regarding how we should fibreglass the inside with fiberglass fabric? Before or after the frame,but thought it should be better after:-)

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by DuEholic » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:39 pm

Some pictures of our lasts days of works...

Sanding the seams to remove the extra putty fillet.

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We then cut the fiberglass tape to build the fiberglass seams. As we didn't found fiberglass tape, we have used and cuted a fiberglass fabric 200mg.

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We primed the plywood, wait a bit and then apply the fiberglass on the wet putty.

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When drying, we cut the rubber, tiller, centerboad and centerboardtrunk:

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Regarding the centerboard, we have an interrogation regarding the hole to be filled with lead ballast... should we cut the hole and put lad ballast in both pieces of plywood of the centerboad or just in one? We think it must be easier to make just one to fill it but don't know if it will be correct regarding the weight of the lead.... what do you suggest?

many thanks, Audrey & Durval

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Re: C12 - TL70 - Brazil

Post by pee wee » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:57 am

You're making such good progress I don't know if this will be useful to you anymore, but one method to help in removing a butt block would be to use a circular saw set to almost the thickness of the butt block and make many cuts near each other, then a chisel to remove the bulk of the wood, then sand the last of it smooth. It may seem like a lot of trouble now, but I think you'll be glad once it's done and you're looking at a smooth hull.
Hank

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