GV15 Build

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OneWayTraffic
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Re: GV15 Build

Post by OneWayTraffic » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:26 pm

50% glass content means that you have a similar amount of epoxy to your fibreglass. If your glass is 400gsm, then a similar weight of epoxy should wet out 1 square metre. Using more epoxy than needed wastes money, increases weight and has no benefit at all.



Huntsabunch
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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Huntsabunch » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:06 am

Thank you for the response from way down under. It's amazing that you can ask a question and get an answer from 8000 miles away within 30 minutes.
I assume then, that subsequent coats of epoxy are only to fill the weave but ultimately necessary?

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by jacquesmm » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:23 am

The strongest lamination is the one with the least glass: 33% glass is stronger trhan 50% glass and cost less.
There is a limit: all glass must be wet.

Fairing is another matter. It happens after the lamination.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Huntsabunch » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:37 am

So the lamination process is considered complete after the initial application of resin to the dry cloth and everything after that is considered fairing? I am just trying to get my nomenclature figured out. What is the recommended way to fill the weave? Do I use straight epoxy resin and call it fairing instead of laminating? This glassing process is a big step in my build, and one that can't be undone. Just trying to get it right.
Thanks
Ken

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Fuzz » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:42 pm

First I am pretty sure JM meant the that the strongest fibreglass is the one with the least amount of resin.
Your lamination is done when you have added all the glass you need to for the job. Many times that will be multiple layers.
As for fairing. When you are done glassing take a sander and knock off the stitching and any other things that need it. Most folks like to do their filling of the weave and first round of fairing the the blended mix they sell here. It is cheaper than quickfair and works just fine for the first round or two. After that quickfair.

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Huntsabunch » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:02 pm

Today (as in, after I got off work) I started off by lowering my jig by 6". I still think an elevated jig is nice but I think having the keel a couple inches above waist level is about as high as I would want to go. It was an easy job. I just cut the same amount off each leg. I'm pretty sure square is locked in on the hull at this point anyway. I'm still stressing about glassing the bottom, wondering if I've done enough sanding, if my material is going to lay flat and my corners will look good, or whether or not I've overlooked a step. I'm starting to believe that the instructions for the GV15 might be a little dated and that there are some improved methods that aren't mentioned. Anyway, I'm hoping that tomorrow will be the big day and all my worry will be for naught.

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I had one other mentionable event today. I found a carbide scraper at Lowe's today that is the equivalent of 347 square yards of sand paper. I'm pretty certain that I am the last person on this forum to own one but since nobody has bothered to mention it I will do so here.

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This thing is useless on the cloth but when it comes to drips, runs, or any uneven occurrence of the resin this baby will pare it down in nothing flat. I was literally hunting places to scrape before I was done. I'll probably get a reply saying that scraping sets up a permanent, high frequency vibration that will result in hull failure within 6 months of launch but until then I'll be scraping first, sanding second. :D

Fuzz,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know I must seem awfully dense on this subject but when I taped my seams and squeeged out the excess resin, the resulting finish/texture of the tape was anything but a finished surface. I have been under the impression that you used additional coats of epoxy resin to full the weave on the cloth and then used fairing compound to level out the few remaining blemishes. Now I'm starting to think that fairing compound is used to do this. But then I read that if I sand anything with micro balloons in it I will need to apply an additional coat of resin to fill the voids left by the broken micro balloons. I'm guessing that there is no hard fast rule but is one way better than the other? If I fill the weave with plain resin will it result in a weaker joint?

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Huntsabunch » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:13 pm

seaslug wrote:
Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:11 pm
Nice clean work, you won't have any trouble with the wide cloth. I mix about 24 ounces at a time using slow hardener. A lot of guys roll the entire hull with epoxy first, than roll out the cloth, but I just roll the cloth on the dry hull and pour the epoxy on and slowly move it around with a plastic spreader letting it saturate the cloth completely as you move along. You'll get the feel of it on the first batch, and it's really that easy. The spreader I like the most is from Lowe's, called a "triple edge paint guide" by Blue Hawk, about 10" wide of semi rigid plastic. It has a nice built in handle which makes it easy to work with. Unless you're working out in direct sunlight you'll have plenty of time to work, so there's no need to stress out and work like a madman. After the cloth is sufficiently wet out you squeegee of the excess, not pressing to hard. I work from the keel outward and down the sides and catch as much excess resin as possible. Mike
Thanks again Mike. I am in Lowe's all the time for work so I picked up one of those paint guides. Also found a cool scraper that I mentioned earlier. It will take 4 pieces to get from sheer to sheer on my build. Are you suggesting that I laminate all 4 pieces in one application or should I do the bottom and get the sides later? If later, should it be before the bottom has fully cured?
Ken

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by seaslug » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:21 pm

To fill in the weave you'll use thickened epoxy in some form, Quick Fair, or epoxy with a firing filler mixed in, not straight epoxy, it's not thick enough to fill the weave efficiently and also hard to sand . All your hull strength comes from the initial lamination's, not the fairing. Ideally, if you have the time, and you're are organized and methodical in your work, you can do the entire lamination "wet on wet". I did all the 6" tape before dinner, than after it tacked up enough so the tape was well stuck and wouldn't move I laid down the 12oz. 50" wide cloth on the bottom, and 6 oz. woven on the sides, so the entire bottom and sides done in one shot. If you can't do it that way, you can apply more glass without sanding if you do it less than 24 hours after later, but I would knock down any high or uneven areas regardless. If you have a helper with another one of those paint edge guides, and also to help mixing etc. it will make the process even easier. Don't stress out, after you pour on the first batch of resin you'll realize it's pretty straight forward. Hey, worst case scenario, you use a little more resin than a pro, and you have a little extra sanding. No big deal. Mike

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Huntsabunch » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:58 pm

After due thought and careful consideration, I decided to do a little fairing on my tape edges before glassing the hull. Don't know if this is a recommended procedure but I'm glad I did it. I feel Like it made the glassing go a little easier and gave me a better job. I have finished a fair amount of drywall in my time so fairing the edges came pretty natural.

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I used the Silvertip quick fair and was surprised at how smooth it was and how far it went. When I saw those 2 little bitty cans that were supposed to fair my entire boat I thought it must be some kind of joke. I'm pretty sure I'll need more but not as much as I thought. I sanded it with 80 grit and, while it sands easier than straight epoxy, it ain't nothing like sanding redi mix off a drywall seam.
With that done I was ready for the major step of glassing the bottom. I got as organized as I could (which ain't all that organized) since I am a one man operation. I decided to go with 18 oz batches and use the slow hardener. I placed both port and stbd side glass as precisely as I could then folded back the stbd side, but put a clamp on the ends so I could just flip it back into position when the port side was wetted out. Kudos to seaslug for the recommendation to use the 3 in 1 paint guide from Lowes. I don't have anything to compare it to but I can't imagine what could be much better. Both bottom pcs went pretty well. The only problem I ran into was that some areas didn't want to wet out completely no matter how much resin I applied.

486

I rolled it with a laminating roller and a foam roller without results. The glass appears to be in good contact with the plywood but still can't get it wet. Any input on this situation would be appreciated. Is it a potential problem?

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My instructions say that glassing the sides is optional and I can tell that I wasn't going to have enough 12 oz biax to do them since I ordered only what the BOM recommended. One of our local captains that does boat repairs in the off season fixed me up with some 8 oz weave that would work well to glass the sides. And there is where I almost met with disaster. (sorta, kinda) I had pre cut the pcs for the sides so when I finished with the bottom I grabbed one and proceeded to lap it over the very tacky 12 oz on the bottom. I wish I could think of a good analogy to describe trying to place a 15' long by 2' wide piece of super slick, super limber cloth on a vertical surface that is partially covered in partially cured epoxy using gloved hands that are covered with epoxy resin without dropping it on the floor or stretching it out of shape or forming huge permanent wrinkles, but I can't. It took 20 minutes of careful pushing, pulling and prodding but I finally got it in a workable position and soaked her down. The lighter weave was much more forgiving so, while it was a challenge, it wasn't a catastrophe.

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A helper here would have made all the difference in the world but if you are a one man show like me, I recommend letting the bottom cure and them hang the sides. I was left with a couple small edge wrinkles to work out and some trash under the glass but, overall, I am pretty happy with the way things turned out for my first time.

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I figure I laid 195 oz of material and used 128 oz of resin. Seems kind of light but I don't feel like I scrimped on it. I went back over several spots, several times.
I hope anyone with more experience than me will critique my work and that anyone with less experience (like that's possible) will gain from my trials.
I'm still a little fuzzy on how I'm supposed to fill weave on this critter. That's a lot of fairing.

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Re: GV15 Build

Post by Fuzz » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:41 pm

For a first time glassing it looks pretty good. Try to post some close up pictures of the worst looking spots. You might have a problem and you might not. You will need to sand down the biax before fairing or adding more glass. You only want to knock off the threads and not cut into the glass. When you start seeing the cross hatch you have gone far enough. As for the fairing maybe Seaslug will chime back in. He is a pro at it.

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