Have some questions on CS25 construction....

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BlaineAtk
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Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by BlaineAtk » Tue May 26, 2015 9:30 am

Hello all,

I am wanting to undertake the construction of a CS-25 but I have a few questions that I would like to ask before I get in over my head.

First, I was wondering if instead of wood as the core on the hull, could I use a thin Nida-Core (Honeycomb material) layer and then laminate that with fiberglass inside and out without causing a detrimental side effect to the draft / waterline / stability of the boat? I know that in theory it should be a lighter weight which could potentially cause issues with pounding offshore but I feel that there must be a way to mitigate this. I don't know for sure on that, that is why I am here asking all of you. All of the builds I have seen on here look AMAZING! My main reason for wanting to go away from wood is that in my experience ( I have done quite a bit of fiberglass floor repair and stringer repair on boats due to my grandfather previously owning a marina) it is almost inevitable that you will eventually get water penetration which over time causes the wood to rot or swell causing de-lamination. If I were to use some form of a composite material I could eliminate that problem all together.

Second, I have never built a boat from the ground up from scratch like you guys are doing! I classify you guys as either artists or craftsmen which are on a level that I am not totally sure I am on par with. Hahaha. I have done fiberglass and paint work in the past on various types of boats. I know how to roll out glass, saturation of material, ensure there are no bubbles, overlapping, using filler, and encapsulating material to prevent water intrusion. I guess what I am getting at is I am not entirely sure how involved this build would be. I have looked over the build that was done down in the Islands of the CS-25 that turned out BEAUTIFUL and it didn't look like it was extremely involved with many complex cuts or anything of that nature. This could be where my lack of experience in a from scratch build is showing and I could be overlooking something? So, would this boat be a bad choice for a first "From Scratch" build?

Third, when I order plans I was wanting to know if they come with just the dimensions of each piece of the puzzle or do they come with some form of a step by step plan? Something in-between? Is there a plan set that comes with a template that could basically be traced out and cut? (probably a ridiculous question!)

How offshore capable is this hull design? It looks like it would ride well in a swell and with that big bow, not get too much spray. Though any center console boat is "Wet" in the right conditions.

If I were to move forward with this I would like to build the CS-25 open with a T-Top and an outboard bracket. I think my dream would be if it was an inboard but we have to leave a little imperfection! Hahaha

If anyone has any input or helpful information concerning my questions I would be very grateful for your time and information. Thank you guys and hopefully you will soon see a build thread of me completing one of these!



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jacquesmm
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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by jacquesmm » Tue May 26, 2015 10:15 am

Lots of questions, I can not go in detail over each of them. Many of those questions are covered in our HowTo files at bateau2.com.
BlaineAtk wrote: I am wanting to undertake the construction of a CS-25 but I have a few questions that I would like to ask before I get in over my head.

First, I was wondering if instead of wood as the core on the hull, could I use a thin Nida-Core (Honeycomb material) layer and then laminate that with fiberglass inside and out without causing a detrimental side effect to the draft / waterline / stability of the boat? I know that in theory it should be a lighter weight which could potentially cause issues with pounding offshore but I feel that there must be a way to mitigate this. I don't know for sure on that, that is why I am here asking all of you.
I am the designer of the CS25. The CS25 can be built in foam sandwich, the scantlings were calculated for Divinycell. The boat is lighter but the difference does not affect performance negatively. I would not use Nidacore for the hull, only for the flat parts. Nidacore does not have the sheer strength of Divinycell. Keep in mind the cost of the materials: it will will be 2 or 3 times higher.

All of the builds I have seen on here look AMAZING! My main reason for wanting to go away from wood is that in my experience ( I have done quite a bit of fiberglass floor repair and stringer repair on boats due to my grandfather previously owning a marina) it is almost inevitable that you will eventually get water penetration which over time causes the wood to rot or swell causing de-lamination. If I were to use some form of a composite material I could eliminate that problem all together.
You are correct if you compare to boats built from cheap fir plywood in polyester resin. That is how boats were built before we knew better. I was engineering manager of a large fiberglass boats factory and agree that they were not always built correctly. That does not apply to epoxy boats with a quality plywood core. Many of those boats are 40+ years old without any rot. I can explain in detail hwy but not in a short reply. Plywood epoxy is used by many high end custom yacht yards.


Second, I have never built a boat from the ground up from scratch like you guys are doing! I classify you guys as either artists or craftsmen which are on a level that I am not totally sure I am on par with. Hahaha. I have done fiberglass and paint work in the past on various types of boats. I know how to roll out glass, saturation of material, ensure there are no bubbles, overlapping, using filler, and encapsulating material to prevent water intrusion. I guess what I am getting at is I am not entirely sure how involved this build would be. I have looked over the build that was done down in the Islands of the CS-25 that turned out BEAUTIFUL and it didn't look like it was extremely involved with many complex cuts or anything of that nature. This could be where my lack of experience in a from scratch build is showing and I could be overlooking something? So, would this boat be a bad choice for a first "From Scratch" build?
I would build something small first like the Cheap Canoe. Plans are free. You will save a lot on materials by practicing on that small canoe. It can go together in 20 hours and you will save more than the 20 hours and 2 sheets of plywood it cost.

Third, when I order plans I was wanting to know if they come with just the dimensions of each piece of the puzzle or do they come with some form of a step by step plan?
The plans come with all the dimensions and step by step instructions. You should also read our how to files.

Something in-between? Is there a plan set that comes with a template that could basically be traced out and cut? (probably a ridiculous question!)
Full size templates are inaccurate. See our tutorials, they explain how to use the dimensions, it is very simple. Or skip all the measuring and buy one of our kits. There is a professional builder in the North East that has built several CS23's using our kits.

How offshore capable is this hull design? It looks like it would ride well in a swell and with that big bow, not get too much spray. Though any center console boat is "Wet" in the right conditions.
It is a very unseaworthy boats like all my designs, a real bad one. :lol:
What do you expect me to say, I am the designer. I can say that the CS23 and CS25 are based on hulls that I designed years ago for Pursuit Sport Fishing boats.

If I were to move forward with this I would like to build the CS-25 open with a T-Top and an outboard bracket. I think my dream would be if it was an inboard but we have to leave a little imperfection! Hahaha
One CS25 was fitted with a diesel inboard.

If anyone has any input or helpful information concerning my questions I would be very grateful for your time and information. Thank you guys and hopefully you will soon see a build thread of me completing one of these!
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by mindunderwater » Tue May 26, 2015 11:53 am

I overthought a few things moving into my first project. Simply put, I was wrong in doing so. I tried the alternative - I can not stress how vastly easier it is the way Jacques' plans are done. Seeing the results here compared to the hair-ripping experience I was having with a full size plan has me -QUITE- convinced...

You need some sort of bendable stick that's on the long side, a pencil, some scrap triangles (CL) or nails. A few nice big squares are handy and I bought a big straight edge for making center lines / reference points and drawing the frame's straight edges. Keeping port / starboard or other duplicated panels identical by cutting them out at the same time is definitely the way to fly.

A small project to help you get better on epoxy estimation (and conservation) would be a good place to start. I bet on a 25' project the savings in materials pays for your cheap canoe. So... cheap canoe becomes essentially free canoe.

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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by Walkers Run » Tue May 26, 2015 12:59 pm

This design is quite off shore capable. That what it's designed for. I pushed mine really hard this past weekend. Harder than I normally use it, just to see what she had. Ran about 20 miles in steady 3' to 4'. Very impressed. It reminds me favorably of a Pursuit I had.

I'ts not sensitive to load, jumps on plane, goes like hell, handles like a performance car.

Not as dry as it could be. I need to ad a spray rail. Actually I need to sharpen the existing chine all the way to the bow. I will start a thread when I'm ready to tackle this. ( BBV currently in remission)

I've had a lot of different off shore fishing boats, bigger and smaller. Pound for pound this design holds it's own with any.

I love my CS 25.

Which all the help on this forum you can do this, it was my first build.

Build one!!
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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by peter-curacao » Tue May 26, 2015 1:26 pm

BlaineAtk wrote:
How offshore capable is this hull design? It looks like it would ride well in a swell and with that big bow, not get too much spray. Though any center console boat is "Wet" in the right conditions.

If I were to move forward with this I would like to build the CS-25 open with a T-Top and an outboard bracket. I think my dream would be if it was an inboard but we have to leave a little imperfection! Hahaha

If anyone has any input or helpful information concerning my questions I would be very grateful for your time and information. Thank you guys and hopefully you will soon see a build thread of me completing one of these!
Maybe these 2 clips helps you on the spray and dryness questions?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bUpH_11DqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVcdbqUFmrM

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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by jacquesmm » Tue May 26, 2015 1:40 pm

Thanks for the report. Peter from Curacao posted similar comments.
Yes, it should remind you of the Pursuit, I was what those companies call the "design team".

Yes also about the spray rail. It does not matter so much for the first 2 feet but after that, they should have sharp edges to separate the water.
The strakes should have a sharp edge all the way.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by jacquesmm » Tue May 26, 2015 1:43 pm

Thanks Peter, you posted at the same time.
The 1st video shows a nice deflection of the sprays.
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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by Cracker Larry » Tue May 26, 2015 2:58 pm

I don't think I've ever been anywhere with as much sustained wind and large seas as where Peter lives. 35 kts and 12' is about standard. The wind blows from Africa and it never quits, not that I have seen anyway. You don't even need a broom in the house, just open the front and back doors, after you secure your money, plane tickets and passport, and the wind will blow everything else to South America. A good day for them, most people in the USA would not even leave the dock. Their trees grow sideways.
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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by peter-curacao » Tue May 26, 2015 3:30 pm

Cracker Larry wrote:I don't think I've ever been anywhere with as much sustained wind and large seas as where Peter lives. 35 kts and 12' is about standard. The wind blows from Africa and it never quits, not that I have seen anyway. You don't even need a broom in the house, just open the front and back doors, after you secure your money, plane tickets and passport, and the wind will blow everything else to South America. A good day for them, most people in the USA would not even leave the dock. Their trees grow sideways.
Haha you made this remark several times and it NEVER gets old, always rofl when you write this :lol: :lol: The trees you are referring to are Divi trees here's some examples 8) Here's also a short clip of one of "my" fishing spots on a calm day seen from land, so yeah it handles chop pretty well 8) thank god the water is nice and warm :o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Qmm93HI17M
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Re: Have some questions on CS25 construction....

Post by Cracker Larry » Tue May 26, 2015 4:39 pm

That's what I'm talking about, 3,000 miles of open ocean and a wind that never quits. The trees can't even grow straight. Don't even think about turning loose of your beer or hamburger on the beach, or it's going to South America too 8O

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