Eric's C21

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Eric1
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Re: Eric's C21

Post by Eric1 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:48 am

I just want to thank Everyone for the kind comments and support. :D
It means more to me than you know. :D :D :D

I'm moving forward with mock ups this morning.
I know of one issue I will correct before chase tubes etc.
The unfinished edge of the boat sides need to be leveled. Particularly towards the bow.
My nose dropped some and the curve has a noticeable hump in it. I'm going to purchase a power plane to help with this.
I probably should have held off painting the rub rail until after flipping but who knew.
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I'm also strongly considering a side console design that will be well forward as shown in the plans.
Even if I go center console I want to move it forward.
This will primarily be a lake boat so spray is not an issue. If I get to go offshore I plan to choose the days with discretion.

At the stern I have built the frames as show in the plans. I initially thought of making a bench type seat back there.
Now that I have a floor in her I'm not sure there is room to make a proper seat with out sacrificing deck space forward.
Plus I have to accommodate the thrust box that Jacques specifies.

Other thoughts are to where to cut the hole in the transom for wiring and hoses.
I've seen this done on some nice boats right at center in front of the motor.
I like the neat look of it but I'm not sure how and where to go about it.

Another consideration is that I will be putting in a through hull pickup and pump.
Should I run a pcv pipe back through the stringers to the center bilge compartment where the pump will be.
The thought here is should I get a leak at the pick up the water could drain to the bilge pump.
My concern is the loss of strength at a high load area at the transom.
I suppose I could place a small pump in the bilge compartment where the pick up is to accomplish the same thing.
That means plumbing another pipe for an outlet.

Lastly I have a good bit of G10 panels I'd like to use. I'm thinking of building the consoles or bait tanks from this.
I'm frugal and I hate to waste material. Thoughts?
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Re: Eric's C21

Post by glossieblack » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:08 am

Eric1 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:48 am
The unfinished edge of the boat sides need to be leveled. Particularly towards the bow.
My nose dropped some and the curve has a noticeable hump in it. I'm going to purchase a power plane to help with this.
If you're intending to tweak the sheer line to get rid of the droop, you'll have to tweak the lower edge of the rub rail too. If your laying decks with a cross-ships camber, you'll need to tweak the cross-ships profile of the upper edge of the hull and rub rail too. I had to do such tweaks on Skinnydip, and it took me a lot more time than I expected.

The pic of a happy Eric standing on a temporary sole is just wonderful! :D
Currently building Jacques Mertens ST21 "Skinnydip". Boating adventures: Splash testing and using 'Skinnydip, as a basis of further building refinement; Adams 44’ sailing sloop "Great Sandy" (cruising and maintaining); Iain Oughtred Feather Pram "Mini Dip" (building); Jacques Mertens R13 "Wood Duck" (built and due for maintenance).

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Re: Eric's C21

Post by jacquesmm » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:34 am

Sheer line at the bow: I agree with Glossieblack. The shaved top part will look weird. I would instead bend the deck plywood using some kerfs if needed. A moderate powder horn style sheer does not look bad at all, many prefer it.

Move console forward: yes but how much? 6" is fine 12" requires move other weights.
Seats and layout: that is up to you as long as you keep the framing spaced every 36". That boat has high sides, you need cockpit frames above the sole.

Transom holes for controls etc.: no problem as long as you stay at 3" from the edges and from what you write, it should be fine in the middle.

I am not certain that I understand where that pick up will go. What is it for? Baitwell, cleaning water to deck pump? I would put it in the bottom forward around frame E , where ever you can easily (very easily) reach the valve.

G10 is a good material but very heavy. It will be fine for a baitwell or fishbox. How thick is it? If 3/8 or more, you could use it for the console but it is much heavier than a plywood core. Less than 3/8 will be flimsy.
It is an excellent material for hatches and seat tops. Backing plates, switch panels but again, heavy and difficult to machine but you have the tools.
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Re: Eric's C21

Post by Eric1 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:24 pm

jacquesmm wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:34 am
Sheer line at the bow: I agree with Glossieblack. The shaved top part will look weird. I would instead bend the deck plywood using some kerfs if needed. A moderate powder horn style sheer does not look bad at all, many prefer it.
I'll think it will make the bend. I had it in mind that it was thicker than 1/4" ply.

Move console forward: yes but how much? 6" is fine 12" requires move other weights.
I'll get back to you on this. I'm laying it out in my CAM system.


Seats and layout: that is up to you as long as you keep the framing spaced every 36". That boat has high sides, you need cockpit frames above the sole.
I can do that!

Transom holes for controls etc.: no problem as long as you stay at 3" from the edges and from what you write, it should be fine in the middle.
Ok sounds good.


I am not certain that I understand where that pick up will go. What is it for? Baitwell, cleaning water to deck pump?
Baitwell(s) and raw water washdown.

I would put it in the bottom forward around frame E , where ever you can easily (very easily) reach the valve.
Yes Sir Jacques, That's where I was thinking.

G10 is a good material but very heavy. It will be fine for a baitwell or fishbox. How thick is it? If 3/8 or more, you could use it for the console but it is much heavier than a plywood core. Less than 3/8 will be flimsy.
It is 3/16". I'll use marine ply for console and maybe double this for hatch lids.

It is an excellent material for hatches and seat tops. Backing plates, switch panels but again, heavy and difficult to machine but you have the tools.
Thank You For the help!!

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Re: Eric's C21 **Jacques**

Post by Eric1 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:53 pm

jacquesmm wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:34 am

Move console forward: yes but how much? 6" is fine 12" requires move other weights.

Seats and layout: that is up to you as long as you keep the framing spaced every 36".
That boat has high sides, you need cockpit frames above the sole.
I want to shift the console forward 13.125".
I'm not sure I understand the issue of having to move other weights. Do keep in mind my outboard will be on an Armstrong bracket.
When I compare the difference in the dual console to the center console I see a good bit more mass forward on the dual console design.
Surely moving the center forward would not effect performance that much?

As for the cockpit frames. I'm trying to understand where they are by your design.
Using DWG E226/4 the frame at station F would be 25.5" (the length of the optional jump seat side panel)from frame at station G.
Then using the scale of 1"=12" Frame at station D appears to be 55.5". Above you specified a 36" spacing for these.
Sorry I'm confused Friend, Just trying to reason my way through the build.

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Re: Eric's C21

Post by jacquesmm » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:17 am

For the weights: I forgot that you are building a full transom with bracket. That will compensate for the weight of the console moving forward. No problem there.

For the location of the last frame G WITH a bracket: that is not shown on the plans but it is easy.
Under the sole, G stays where it is shown on the plans. You have already done that.
Above the sole, you are free to put G where you want but you need it, you can't skip it.
I would move it 18" back. That would be a full bulkhead at about 8" forward of the transom measured at the bottom.
You still need the longitudinal frames between G and the transom spaced approximately like the stringers. That whole bulkhead assembly will create a strong box beam and leave room for storage in the stern (tackle boxes?) and a small rear deck.
When you locate the longitudinal braces, take in account the bolts for the bracket. You don't want them to land smack on the brace.
You have some freedom with that G location, further forward is fine. Same freedom with the longitudinal braces.
I can give bulkhead dimensions but at this stage, it is safer to take measurements from the assembled hull.
Think about access to the bilge pump and size of the deck hatches IF you use any. I wouldn't.

If you need a simple drawing to visualize that whole thing, I"ll do it and post it here.
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Re: Eric's C21 **Jacques**

Post by Eric1 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:51 pm

I laid this out as described. The Phantom blue lines are a bench seat I want incorporate.
The blue arrow indicates "Face" hatches to access the bilge and transom bolts.
Instead of the G being 90 degrees to sole I would like to set at 95-100 degrees to make a comfortable backrest.
Try not to laugh but at 90 my arms won't allow me to reach the bottom to put a fillet and wet out glass tape.
Any ideas? Can G be cut in half to allow me to reach the sole? Then glue back together with butt joint?

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Re: Eric's C21

Post by Fuzz » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:00 am

Why not put a cleat there and do it just like the sides :doh: The cut in two plan will work also.

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Re: Eric's C21

Post by Eric1 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:09 am

Fuzz wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:00 am
Why not put a cleat there and do it just like the sides :doh: The cut in two plan will work also.
I get that, just making sure it ain't got to be one piece.

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Re: Eric's C21

Post by jacquesmm » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:44 am

The drawing looks exactly as what I expected.
The small angle does not change anything, it's fine.
To reach the bottom, I would cut in two and re-assemble with a butt block.
I don't understand the cleat idea unless G is in2 parts with one below and above the sole. That would work too.
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