FS18 on the double!

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piperdown
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by piperdown » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:29 am

Looking great!

Had to laugh at the surform blades, not at you, but thinking back on my own build. I too broke a couple of blades and ended up ordering two 5 packs off of Amazon (Home Depot is 5 mins from my house but only carries 1 blade to a pack).


Eric (aka, piperdown)

"Give an Irishman lager for a month and he's a dead man. An Irishman's stomach is lined with copper, and the beer corrodes it. But whiskey polishes the copper and is the saving of him." --> Mark Twain

Jacky Chan
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Jacky Chan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:37 am

You couldn't make it up! A full hour round trip basically for 1 surform blade that lasts for all of 2.5 seconds out of its packet!! :lol: As they say, 2 is 1 and 1 is none!

Sounds like I'm not alone in ploughing through the surform blades :wink: The next day, similar to you, I cleaned out another hardware store and then bough another 5 off amazon for good measure! :lol:

Did anyone find a good way of slapping on the rubrail layers? I am thinking of drilling holes for dowels, one dowel at each end of each piece + clamps. Then letting it cure, sawing off the dowels and repeating?

Also I'm getting cold feet about going for the low sheer option (3" at the transom, tapering to zero at the bow). Not sure if its my in-built laziness coming to the fore or Jacques' words of caution, or both! I do think it looks even more stunning with the low sheer - does anyone have any views on the matter that has tried it themselves or has fished on a low-sheer FS18?

Last question!, while I'm here, does anyone have any tips on what sort of wood to use for the little joists that go under the deck pieces - would red ok be up to scratch do you think? And do you think I should make the internal rubrail similar dimensions to the external one, i.e. about 1.5" x 3/4"?

Browndog
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Browndog » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:17 pm

Not sure why altering the shear line, especially lowering it, gets so much interest.

I really don’t like getting wet when I’m in a boat and when the shear gets reduced so does the hull flare, increasing the likelihood of water or spray coming over the gunwales. The reduction in hull depth also reduces load carrying ability, buoyancy and secondary stability.

The boat as designed looks great and performs really well.

By comparison to what is traditional in your locale you are already building a boat with a pretty low shear.

Just a word of caution to avoid modifying the design too greatly.

Of course it is your boat and your choice to have exactly what you want, but if you have any doubts then I would recommend building the hull as designed before altering the shear line.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by OrangeQuest » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:54 pm

I am with Browndog. Only reason I could see reducing the sheer is if you will be poling it a lot. The low sheer will make it easier to control in a little wind.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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seaslug
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by seaslug » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:01 pm

Red Oak is not a good boat building wood because of the open cell structure, but White Oak is fine, but they are both too heavy in my opinion for a small light skiff. If you can find clear Fir, or some type of Cedar, either would be preferable.. If you're not going to have a wide "walk around gunwale" I'd suggest an inner "rub rail" of at least 2-3" to stiffen the hull, otherwise you may have some hull flex..... On your question of whether to cut down the sheer, this is what I did. Not necessary of course, but I like the looks of the lower sheer, and it probably helps while poling in a stiff wind. I cut my panels to the straight sheer plan, with the dimension at the transom of 17 5/8" from the hull bottom to the deck. After the flip I cut it down to 15" at the transom to zero at the bow. Not a drastic reduction in sheer height above the water, but I do like the way it came out. If you just built the low, or straight sheer plan it would more than likely look almost identical to mine because it's only 2 5/8" at the transom, tapering to zero, and probably not noticeably different. If you do decide to do it, be sure to have the hull sides pulled in to where the bulkheads will be if they're not already installed because the sides of the boat will be flared out a little from weight and gravity. I would also suggest having the boat sitting on a level surface, and using a laser to mark your cut line. I did mine using a long flexible batten, but it's hard to eyeball the long line because of the curve of the hull, and although mine looks good, it's not perfect. I've fished mine heavily for over 3 years now, a minimum of 200 trips. Being long and light it skips over small chop and small boat wakes, and I've never shipped even a cup of water. It's a great boat whichever sheer you decide. Good luck with your build. Mike
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Jacky Chan
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Jacky Chan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:17 am

Thank you so much for all the points chaps, all really useful, I have been really mulling it over all weekend but haven't had the computer to respond - can't remember my password to log in on my phone!!

I tried measuring how high the 'seat' would be underway with tiller under your arm and I think this might be the deciding factor - at 6'6" I would be hunched over terribly on the low-sheer version, even with a decent seat pad to sit on. Probably the deciding factor, though I have been changing my mind every 6 hours or so so who knows! Problaby going to settled with a coin toss I expect :lol:

Also great to see FS18s of all sheer types getting some consistent use - they are clearly such a fantastic design whatever you do with them! 8)

I can see this boat being great for a bit of 'dragon-boating', not sure its a thing but we used to do it when I was young - people sitting on each side with short paddles having a race to see which side of the boat is faster - if it starts heading to port then the starboard side is the winner!

Going to focus on damming up the edges tonight to buy some more mulling time

Jacky Chan
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Jacky Chan » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:16 am

There must be a simpler way to put the sharp edges on!! :lol: :help: What started as a simple idea quickly became more complicated with screws in the wrong place and weights slung to stop the straps pulling it all over the place etc etc... If I was to do it again I'd go and find some long pieces of fairly stiff card and cover them in packing tape, rather than the cheap 3mm ply I had (though I will get to use it as long boards for fairing). Then you could just tape that card to the edges and pretty much call it a day.

Worked out OK in the end with just a couple of dam-buster drips and a few areas that needed a top up of peanut butter the next day. Yes those are my 3yo son's birthday cards from the weekend! :oops: They filled the gaps nicely where I shouldn't have put a screw.

One corner of the transom has a tighter corner than the other, but then it is a home-made boat so I think I can live with that. 8)

I cut 11 8ft rubrail pieces off the 1/4" board I was saving for the sole (now going for 3/8 and airbags instead of buoyancy foam - in the UK you are never far from port and there are no alligators 8) ). Tried to copy the angle of the rubrail at an 'average' spot, I must have made a mistake somewhere as the pieces turned out a little wavy... Was in too much of a rush to realise until pretty much the last piece... :roll:

As a result I am going to pre-drill for a ring-shank nail every 2ft or so whenever it waves again to keep it in line with the current edge. Should be fine and possible add stiffness. Hoping to get them on tomorrow and then move onto fairing. New sapele skeg arriving tomorrow too along with plenty of cedar for the struts, cleats etc

Taking some flak from the wife so it might be time for the first bunch of flowers of the build...!
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piperdown
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by piperdown » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:34 am

Looking good! :D

Quite a few of us used wooden dowels to line up the rubrail. Stack each side together, seams staggered, clamp and drill holes for dowels. Apply first layer with the dowels glued in. Then the second and third layers will be lined up when it's time to glue them to the first layer. I did each layer one at a time, precoating the inside faces that mate together with neat epoxy then using woodflour epoxy glue and clamping them together. Walked around a bit after clamping and used a paint stick to wipe off any of the squeeze out from clamping.

You can also use coated screws like these https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Rite-P212ST ... p_pl_dp_13
They don't stick to epoxy and can be reused multiple times. I used them in other areas to help clamp together and have reused them often. Star drive head makes it easy to back them out. After backing them out I drilled them to remove the threads in the hole and filled them with thickened epoxy using a small syringe. Piece of tape on the inside to keep it from running out and a small piece of tape over the outside of the hole to keep the epoxy in.
Eric (aka, piperdown)

"Give an Irishman lager for a month and he's a dead man. An Irishman's stomach is lined with copper, and the beer corrodes it. But whiskey polishes the copper and is the saving of him." --> Mark Twain

Aripeka Angler
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Aripeka Angler » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:54 pm

Jacky Chan wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:16 am

Tried to copy the angle of the rubrail at an 'average' spot, I must have made a mistake somewhere as the pieces turned out a little wavy... Was in too much of a rush to realise until pretty much the last piece... :roll:

This boat has an almost flat sheer. You really don’t need to custom scribe cut the rubrail strips.
Table saw cut strips will work just fine.
The side panels are curved when laying flat but are almost laser straight when stitched together on the boat.
Richard
Completed boats...XF20 "Red Alert", Aripeka Angler's Strip Canoe, FS18 “Bare Bones”, GF12
Currently building...PY12 Kayak
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. - Loren Eiseley
Bare Bones build thread...
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62146

Cbuf
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Re: FS18 on the double!

Post by Cbuf » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:47 am

Am I reading your post correctly. Did you peel ply your entire boat, or just the 6 inch tape?

I'm about at the stage having just removed the zip ties and getting ready to radius the corners. Also, do we need to sharpen the corners? I'm building the lm18.

Thanks

Cbuf.
See my LM 18 build here.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=64254

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