FS17 Build Planning

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Ak99999
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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Ak99999 » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:09 pm

I just bought a bunch of fiberglass supplies and plan on practicing on scrap plywood in the garage. It will give me a chance to work on joining flat panels together and filleting.



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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Fuzz » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:20 pm

Like the others have said building something you need is a great way to practise. I wanted a water tank for flushing my outboards so that is what I built first.

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Ak99999 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:12 am

Good Evening All! I am on the verge of ordering and comparing SilverTip vs Marinepoxy.

When I translate the instructions over to the silver tip package, It makes sense for the most part but had some clarifying questions.

EZ Fillet: making rounded corners prior to putting glass. So my understanding is that I laydown resin/hardener prior to the fillet, and then glass over, followed on by another layer of resin/hardener and squeegee out air bubbles.

Ez Fair: Used to fair the hull (duh). So this is applied on a cured and sanded surface of cured glass?

Gelmagic: This is used to "glue stuff on." For instance, I can use this to attach things like the stringers to the hull, stacking ply to make the rub rail, or sole to the hull cleats. Is gelmagic equivalent to "epoxy putty" as called out in the instructions? Can gelmagic be applied wet on wet, or does it need to be applied on a cured and sanded surface?

Open ended questions:
-What product do I use after I stitch together the panels after everything is zip tied? Filling the gaps between ties.
-What product do I use to fill in gaps between other pieces? For instance when you fill in gaps between the frames.
-Do I use gel magic between the puzzle joints?
-Which product do I use to "seal in" the edges of the plys? Epoxy resin?

Thank you all for all the help! I am super excited to get some epoxy products in the mail to start making practice parts.

FYI: Not sure if I should post this in the "materials/resins" category, but I am would like to keep all the info for me together in one place

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by narfi » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:19 am

I have done my canoe and fs17 with the cheapest options from BBC here. That is Marinepoxy, wood flour, and their premixed fairing powder, and graphite powder.

I cant say how the more expensive products are, but I have had no issues using these for my builds.

Wood flour mixed with epoxy = wood glue for everything on the project

Wood flour mixed with epoxy = structural fillets under all glass and tapes

Fairing mix + epoxy = cosmetic fillets over the top of tapes and glass
Fairing mix + epoxy = fairing for everything over the glass
Fairing mix + epoxy = filling for filling any overfilled holes through the plywood to ensure no water can soak into the edges.
Graphite powder + epoxy = anti abrasion coating for the bottom of the hull, it is tough as well as slick so rocks and sticks are more likely to glance off than to dig into the hull

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by OrangeQuest » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:42 am

I have also been doing everything with the BBC brand epoxy and just wood flour mixed in at different thickness to get a thin glue, thick glue or no sag fillet mix. I have found also that while my fillets are still wet to lay the tape down also for a better fillet shape, using a small diameter roller to roll on the neat epoxy and embed the tape into the fillet a little at he same time shape the fillet. Rolling only towards the fillet when doing it.

You will need more of everything than the kit provides. You will use more first build, but by the end of the build you will be better at how much each area will take in supplies.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Capt UB » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 am

You need to do some reading,

The plans list the setup of the build and what you should read, start reading there.

http://bateau2.com/howto/sg101.php

http://bateau2.com/howto-index.php


I use only BBC's MarinEpoxy with slow hardener.

BBC's wood flour for the glue mix and fillet mix.

I do like S3's QuickFair, very easy to use, but costs! I will be trying the BBC's Fairing mix this time around.


Get to it, start reading the Stich and Glue 101.

Bob
><((((º>¸.•´¯`•><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.¸¸><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.><((((º>

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Capt UB » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:15 am

BB Sig wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:39 pm
I've had good luck with a heat gun to custom bend my pvc pipes. Less joints makes easier pulls.
Thanks, I forgot why I bought that thing... Heat gun! Maybe using it this weekend :?
><((((º>¸.•´¯`•><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.¸¸><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.><((((º>

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by piperdown » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:30 am

Ak99999 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:12 am
Good Evening All! I am on the verge of ordering and comparing SilverTip vs Marinepoxy.

When I translate the instructions over to the silver tip package, It makes sense for the most part but had some clarifying questions.

EZ Fillet: making rounded corners prior to putting glass. So my understanding is that I laydown resin/hardener prior to the fillet, and then glass over, followed on by another layer of resin/hardener and squeegee out air bubbles.

You take neat epoxy and coat the corner first then apply your fillet compound to the corner. Take a rounded object with about a 1/2 radius (I use big tongue depressors) and smooth the fillet out. Take your tape, cut to length, lay it over the fillet and and coat with neat epoxy.

I have been laying the fillet down, rounding it, then take a small amount of neat epoxy and use a chip brush to smooth it out a bit more. Then I wait about 45 minutes for the fillet to get tacky (helps hold the tape in place) and then lay the glass and coat with neat epoxy.

The alternative to EZ fillet is to just take wood flour and epoxy and mix together. So mix up the epoxy in the right ratio, make sure it's well blended then take scoops of wood flour and blend in to whatever consistency you need.

EZ fillet is convenient and expensive. Wood flour and epoxy are cheaper and you have to do a bit more for mixing but not enough for me to justify using EZ fillet


Ez Fair: Used to fair the hull (duh). So this is applied on a cured and sanded surface of cured glass?

Yes, it is applied over the fiberglass that has cured and has been sanded. Most of us buy a fairing mix to add to the epoxy and use that for the first couple of layers, sanding between coats. Once it's getting really close a lot then switch to Quik Fair for the final fairing coat.

Gelmagic: This is used to "glue stuff on." For instance, I can use this to attach things like the stringers to the hull, stacking ply to make the rub rail, or sole to the hull cleats. Is gelmagic equivalent to "epoxy putty" as called out in the instructions? Can gelmagic be applied wet on wet, or does it need to be applied on a cured and sanded surface?

You can get the same effect with using wood flour to make a thickened glue. Some use carbosil I think. A big tub of wood flour is cheap.

Open ended questions:
-What product do I use after I stitch together the panels after everything is zip tied? Filling the gaps between ties.

Either EZ fillet or a mix of wood flour and epoxy. Coat the edges where you will put the thickened epoxy between the stiches with neat epoxy and then add the thickened epoxy. Let cure (depends on temp, hardener speed) usually 24hrs. Check for hardness. If hard, cut the zip ties. Then you would coat the remaining edges and fill in with thickened epoxy

-What product do I use to fill in gaps between other pieces? For instance when you fill in gaps between the frames.

EZ fillet or wood flour and epoxy. As above coat the edges with neat epoxy first then the thickened stuff

-Do I use gel magic between the puzzle joints?

You can or just thickened epoxy


-Which product do I use to "seal in" the edges of the plys? Epoxy resin?

Yes, just neat epoxy resin. I should have said above...when talking about "neat" epoxy we are talking about mixing up the epoxy without anything added. Mostly you brush or roll on to coat and seal the plywood.

Thank you all for all the help! I am super excited to get some epoxy products in the mail to start making practice parts.

FYI: Not sure if I should post this in the "materials/resins" category, but I am would like to keep all the info for me together in one place
Eric (aka, piperdown)

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Ak99999
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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Ak99999 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:54 pm

Capt UB wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:11 am
You need to do some reading,

The plans list the setup of the build and what you should read, start reading there.

http://bateau2.com/howto/sg101.php

http://bateau2.com/howto-index.php


I use only BBC's MarinEpoxy with slow hardener.

BBC's wood flour for the glue mix and fillet mix.

I do like S3's QuickFair, very easy to use, but costs! I will be trying the BBC's Fairing mix this time around.


Get to it, start reading the Stich and Glue 101.

Bob
I’ve been through all the how to’s and read through the plan instructions. I am just trying to clarify the products and their usage. I am not up for mixing, I’d rather have as much premixed for me to get things as close to right as I can.

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Re: FS17 Build Planning

Post by Fuzz » Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:49 am

System 3 makes great products and they all work together. The down side is you pay extra for this convenience. System3 epoxy is close to double the price of Marine epoxy. You can mix epoxies but before using one over the other the first needs to be fully cured. That could be a short as 24 hours or as long as one week. So if you use System3 easyfillet you would need to wait up to a week before running another brand of epoxy over it.
Most of us use Marine epoxy for most of our work and only go to System when we start using Quick Fair. But if your wallet will stand all System3 it makes things much easier. The mixing of glue and fairing compound is easy and it allows you to tailor the mix to your need at the time. Either way you can not go wrong. :wink:

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