AR15 deck and rigging???

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Biney777
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AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Biney777 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:29 pm

I honestly have soooo many questions about this part that I don't know where to start. I have only sailed about 7 times and 6 of those were on the sprit rigged dinghy I built. I have searched this site a LOT and haven't found anything that "I" could apply. My main concern right now is making sure I have backing plates etc. where I need them before the seats and bow get decked in and become inacessible. Any suggestions for build threads here or even outside resources would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks


Completed Danny Greene "Chameleon" a 10 1/2' nesting/rowing/sailing dinghy. Building an Alexa's Rocket 15 w/ optional retractable spinnaker pole.

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by jacquesmm » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:29 pm

Look at the sail plan drawing. Standing rigging is easy.
Chain plates are easy to reach.
You should rig the spi pole before decking.
Everything on the partner is easy to reach.
For the running rigging look at the drawing: you need a mainsheet and a jib sheet block and one in the stern for the spi.
Under the cockpit sole, you should have backing plates for foot straps and a mainsheet block unless you install a main sheet traveler. Along the sides, plates for at least a jib sheet block, a long one for a rail is better. One in the back for the spi sheet block.
Find a similar boat somewhere in a marina close by and see how their deck looks.
You can reach almost anywhere with inspection plates in the vertical face of the cockpit benches.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Biney777 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:12 pm

Thank You, Jacques. Your response was enough guidance to keep me moving forward. I (of course) now have some more detailed questions that I hope you will help me with?
jacquesmm wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:29 pm
Look at the sail plan drawing. Standing rigging is easy. Yes, I think I have the standing rigging resolved. Dwyer Mast and Rigging sent the standing rigging with the mast and boom.
Chain plates are easy to reach.
I have the chainplate backing plates on the chainplate frames installed. Per the picture on B230/1 I installed them as outboard as possible while keeping them vertical. Pic attached
You should rig the spi pole before decking. This is the one I am really struggling to Understand.
1. I have a 2" id pvc pipe installed that goes thru frames A, B, and C and thru the hull (pic attached) . I aligned it so that with 4' of the 6' pole specified on sheet E230/8 the end of the pole is directly in front of the bow. On drawing B230/1 it shows a thru hull fitting and a turning block attached to frame D for the spinnaker pole retracting line. What do I use to get the line thru the two bulkheads between the thru hull fitting and the turning block? I had purchased a "mirror" spinnaker launch chute which I now realize is tooo small for the spinnaker that I have. My plan is to now follow your plan. And leave the front of the bow deck open. This is where my understanding ends! How does the spinnaker pole get extended? I was planning on using a solid piece of oak for the pole, I don't know if a solid pole will work and it will weigh 8#s which seems a lot to hang off the bow? If you could provide me some more detail I would really appreciate it

Everything on the partner is easy to reach. Yes, I have opened the "hatch" openings slightly, so that I think I can now reach anything in the bow area either thru the open Bow or thru the back "opening".
For the running rigging look at the drawing: you need a mainsheet and a jib sheet block and one in the stern for the spi. On the seat tops I have installed an 8" butt block parallel to the aft end of the centerboard frame and a backing plate from the transom and 8" forward. I have also installed a backing plate on the transom from the too down 6". I was planning to put an access/inspection hatch below that so that I can store the oars under the seats.
Under the cockpit sole, you should have backing plates for foot straps and a mainsheet block unless you install a main sheet traveler. I have cleats installed along the frames and stringer under the sole which should provide enough area to attach foot straps? Along the sides, plates for at least a jib sheet block, a long one for a rail is better Along which sides? I see a jib sheet on drawing E230/8 that seems to be attached 10" aft of the mast partner. What length track would you suggest? Where should it be located for and aft? Should it be inside or outside of the chainplates? . One in the back for the spi sheet block. In the back where? Would my backing plate just in front of the transom on the seat tops cover that?
Find a similar boat somewhere in a marina close by and see how their deck looks. My local lake just opened for the season April 1st. I will get down there as soon as I can and try and find a similar style boat to help me visualize what mine will look like.
You can reach almost anywhere with inspection plates in the vertical face of the cockpit benches. I did purchase 4 hatches for the seat sides, there is room for 6 between the frames but I didn't think I would ever need that much storage. Between which frames would you suggest I install the 14"×24" hatches?
Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions!
Attachments
20190402_202632.jpg
Pic of 2" id pvc pipe the pipe is overlength on both ends, just to be sure I didn't make it too short. Ignore the launch chute it is too small.
20190318_211531.jpg
Chainplate on frame C
Completed Danny Greene "Chameleon" a 10 1/2' nesting/rowing/sailing dinghy. Building an Alexa's Rocket 15 w/ optional retractable spinnaker pole.

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Bogieman » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:00 pm

I'm watching this with a lot of interest.

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by jacquesmm » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:10 am

For the spi pole:
- I could have named it retractable bow sprit. Use that name for a search.
- I recommend the carbon fiber tubes from Forte but Al is fine too.
- Expanded, at least half of the pole should still be in the tube. The plans show an adjustment line fitting a few inches further from where the pole should end. The part of the tube between the adjustment line mark and the bow end must be very strong. the rear part of the tube is just a cover, it could even be a set of rings. The adjustment line is attached to the stern end of the pole, goes through a block and when you pull on the line, it moves the pole forward. The spi will pull the pole forward but the line should keep it from moving. Put a collar on the spi pole to keep it from moving forward.
- the exact location of the block must be such that at least 50% of the pole length is in the tube.

More general remarks: from your questions, it looks like this will be your first sailboat. Nothing wrong with that: I took my first sailing lesson after buying a first sailboat and 5 years later I was sailing in Class I in the Admiral's Cup, the unofficial world championship of offshore racing.
You will learn but take it one step at a time.
You should not use a spinnaker until after you become very familiar with sailing.
Build the boat with the spi pole tube in there but don't touch it.
Start by sailing with the main only, as a cat boat. Reef the main the first time you go out.
Once you feel good about handling the boat with the main only, rig a small jib (the one I show on the plans) and get used to sail with the two sails.
For the spi, at first, don't try to handle that pole underway.
Rig it at the dock in the position I show. The sail plan shows the spi pole (bow sprit) sticking out about 3' in front of the bow, not more.
That is how it should be set for the sail dimensions I show.
I saw the pictures of your sails and see that the sailmaker gave you two spis. They look fine but the large one should be rigged only after you gain some experience.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by jacquesmm » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:20 am

Main sheet traveller: the plans do not show it but it can be a nice addition if it was not in the way of the tiller.
That is why I show what's is called a "horse".
Look at this web page for a picture of the two systems:
https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum ... -vs-bridle
You can always install it later but put a backing plate in there now, a simple double thickness of plywood.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Jaysen » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:23 pm

JM is serious about reefing and cat sailing. Only idiots like me don’t listen that that advice. And for the love of god do NOT pop that spinnaker until you’re really really comfortable. And do it in light winds. 2 race boats broached with serious consequences here in CHS this week. All experienced crew. Just not 100% comfy with the hulls they were in and not paying attention properly.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by terrulian » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Only 2? You guys aren't trying.
Tony
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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Jaysen » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Notice “with serious consequences”. More than two wind up with crews wishing they’d bought the same brown pants off the clearance rack that I did (forward thinking there).
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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Re: AR15 deck and rigging???

Post by Biney777 » Fri May 24, 2019 1:21 am

jacquesmm wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:10 am
For the spi pole:
- I could have named it retractable bow sprit. Use that name for a search.
- I recommend the carbon fiber tubes from Forte but Al is fine too.
- Expanded, at least half of the pole should still be in the tube. The plans show an adjustment line fitting a few inches further from where the pole should end. The part of the tube between the adjustment line mark and the bow end must be very strong. the rear part of the tube is just a cover, it could even be a set of rings. The adjustment line is attached to the stern end of the pole, goes through a block and when you pull on the line, it moves the pole forward. The spi will pull the pole forward but the line should keep it from moving. Put a collar on the spi pole to keep it from moving forward.
- the exact location of the block must be such that at least 50% of the pole length is in the tube.
Jacques, I spent some time on the phone with Dwyer Mast and Rigging per your suggestion. Here is my current plan for rigging the spi: I have made the bowsprit from Douglas Fir cut to fit inside the launch tube. I used 80 grit to smooth it enough to put the fiberglass sock on it. Because I did not build it tapered My current plan is to cut a groove in the aft 1/3 of the bowsprit to allow for the "pull out" line. The pull out line turns on a thru deck block then thru a fairlead on top of the bowsprit launch tube then enters the bowsprit launch tube and runs aft in the groove I have cut in the top of the bowsprit, and attaches at the aft end of the bowsprit. The pull in line will go thru frames B and C then turn at a pulley attached to frame E. They will both go thru a thru deck double block on the bow deck aft of frame A. And be led to the mast partner where they can be cleated off. There is probably a way to run it as a continous line to avoid excess slack line and for operational simplicity. I will have to get closer to that stage before I can try to rig it that way.
Please let me know if that is a reasonable workable method? I can do a sketch of that would help? I am basically following the sail/rigging drawing from the plans.
Thank you,
Chris "who has a plan!"
Attachments
20190427_114811.jpg
Facing forward: this pad was to attach the "pull out" line I am not sure if I will need it or if the thru deck block will suffice to make the line turn back to the mast partner. The blue tape shows where the aft end of the spi pole will be when extended fully.
20190427_114816.jpg
Facing aft: Pull in line travels thru frame D and turns at frame E
20190523_193842.jpg
Sized right and smoothed w/ 80 grit.
Completed Danny Greene "Chameleon" a 10 1/2' nesting/rowing/sailing dinghy. Building an Alexa's Rocket 15 w/ optional retractable spinnaker pole.

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