Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

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Iain
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Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by Iain » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 am

Good day all.

First time poster and wanna be builder. I have bigger aspirations for building, but want to start with something small but usable before jumping in to a multi year, multi hull project. Can past builders please give me an idea of their build time for the CV16? I realize that everyone is different, but it gives me a rough idea what to expect....

Secondly, I have a unique requirement (I think at least.....read through as many posts as I could find before posting just in case the answers were out there already, but didn't find it. Might be that I just didn't search for the right thing, and if so please point me in the right direction). I want to use the boat for both teaching the family to sail and to ferry myself and a friend to some dive sites up and down the coast where I stay. When using as a dive boat I would have to remove the rigging and just run it on an outboard, then replace all for some sailing. Is this easily done with the CV16, or would some alterations need to be done? Also, with me diving off the boat, we would need to be able to get back into the boat using some sort of ladder. Where would be the best place to attach the ladder? We are in tropical waters, so the gear is not heavy and we would not climb out with the gear on our backs anyway. It would just need to take the weight of a single adult.

Thank you in advance for your comments and I look forward to your replies.


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Others say nothing gambled nothing gained,
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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by jacquesmm » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:53 am

Labor: what I show at the web site is fora bare hull, ready to paint but minimal fairing.

Switch from sail to dive boat: super easy. Can be done in 5 minutes if you use the proper hardware.

Getting in and out from the water: over the transom but it a light boat. It will help if you have a partner sitting up front or hanging in the water from the bow to balance the boat.
If alone, hang tanks and gear from the bow before you climb over the transom.
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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by OneWayTraffic » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:48 am

Many builders consistently take much longer than Jacques indicates. I spent hours checking and rechecking measurements, I did the cutting on seperate days cleaning up in between, hours sanding over enthusiastic application of filleting epoxy, more hours just going to sand, but really admiring my work, dreaming about build options and so on. That is on a little D5 dinghy.

Consider the estimates as 'hands on the boat moving forwards efficiently' measurement. If you pick a project that you will enjoy the use of it is highly likely that you will also enjoy working on it, as much or more. Don't worry about the time aspect, that will take care of itself.

On the forums you will find builds taking both a very long time, and no time at all. Buying the plywood kit can speed things up, as can working wet on wet and planning ahead. Shine's FS17 low sheer is a good example of those aspects.

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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by Iain » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:46 pm

Thanx OneWay and Jacques. Appreciate the feed back and info. The only reason I ask about timeframe is that I work away from home on a 8/4 rotation (8 weeks away, 4 at home), which would mean that I would need to be able to at have it at least far enough along to leave it under a tarp after 3 weeks of work (and please keep in mind that the 3 weeks would have to include catching up on all the beers I am behind on for the 8 weeks that I was stuck at work ;-) )

As for the extra weight in the boat for climbing back in, I will have a skipper onboard while my friend and I are in the water, so it will be easy enough to have him up front, along with the gear that we would pass up before climbing out. Will have a stainless hook ladder made up to fit over the transom. Something that springs to mind with this is position of motor on transom. Is it central, and if so is there a rudder that is removable for use during sailing? I have looked at the pics and am not 100% sure of this.
"Some say risk nothing, try only for the sure thing,
Others say nothing gambled nothing gained,
Go all out for your dream.
Life can be lived either way, but for me,
I'd rather try and fail, than never try at all, you see."

William F O'Brien

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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by OneWayTraffic » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:01 pm

That's almost ideal. Many can only work weekends, or after work. I think you can achieve a lot more if you can allocate full days to it, but some things take a fixed amount of time regardless.

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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by narfi » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:52 am

I am a couple days behind where I could be if I was working on the canoe all the hours I've had available. Waiting 1/2 A day to apply epoxy when it was to hot, waiting a half day because glue from night before wasn't cured yet, waiting a few days collectively because fairing mix wasn't ready to sand yet.

I think in my case I wouldn't be a lot further along if I'd been working on it weekdays than I am now working on it evenings and weekends.

Just my 2cents as a beginner learning as I go.

Though maybe with a bigger boat there are things to do while epoxy is curing.

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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by Iain » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:43 am

jacquesmm wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:53 am

Switch from sail to dive boat: super easy. Can be done in 5 minutes if you use the proper hardware.
Is the hardware you refer to detailed in the plans, and if not could you please give me an idea of what you would suggest?
"Some say risk nothing, try only for the sure thing,
Others say nothing gambled nothing gained,
Go all out for your dream.
Life can be lived either way, but for me,
I'd rather try and fail, than never try at all, you see."

William F O'Brien

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Re: Caravelle 16 build time and duel use

Post by ks8 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:33 am

The aluminum mast shown in the plans can be stepped in and out by one brute of a person. I did it a few times, but now insist on a helper, unless you devise a tabernacle system for raising and lowering it much more easily alone. Without the tabernacle, I would pull it up out of the step, then try to lower it slowly to about 45 degrees, after which the top would begin to drop beyond what I could *hold*, and my helper would be under it to catch it. I would not try to raise it alone anymore, without a tabernacle system, particularly on a breezy day. I don't want one of the disks in my back to blast out of my spine and hit someone in the forehead and knock them unconscious. Legal entanglements. But it *can* be done by a person big enough and in shape.

If you go with a tabernacle system: Because of the position of the mast directly in front of the centerboard trunk, it can not be lowered straight back, so one must either:

1- build a tabernacle that pivots just above the top edge of the centerboard trunk, or

2- strengthen the centerboard trunk considerably with a structure of it maybe six more inches forward of the trunk, as a type of mast *post* combined with the trunk, so that a simple pivoting mast step can be mounted on top of it and used with a mast that is that much shorter. The mast step would be basically still just in front of the CB trunk, but on the top of it, greatly simplifying building and using it, since the CB trunk is no longer 'in the way'.

With either tabernacle method, the centerboard trunk mounting must be strengthened laterally at its front to support the raised or *long pivoting* version of a tabernacle.

Of course the shrouds, per plan, are simple lashings, but you could substitute quick release SS versions for these. Lashings can be more forgiving with shock loads and are easily adjusted, and inexpensive compared to a SS quick release. If you use a tabernacle, only the forestay need have the quick release since the shrouds can be secured already before raising the mast, or while lowering it. As the mast goes up in the pivot, the shrouds will hold it vertical once vertical, while you walk the forestay forward to secure it, keeping tension on the forestay to keep the mast vertical, steadied by the shrouds. The mast would be shipped and unshipped by carrying it over the transom rather than over the side. This is SOOOOOOO much easier such that I hope it might be incorporated into an official option on future plans. It would add greatly to the design plans, imho. It is what I would have built and would saved much time over working one out on my own, which I don't regret, but I'm thinking of the next person. :wink: :)

With an elevated maststep tabernacle, on top of a forward extended CB trunk structure, of course, if the mast is not thoroughly secured in the pivot of the tabernacle, and the mast breaks or jumps loose out of it, it will have plenty of energy to blast right through the bottom of the boat, so it must be done right and secured well in the tabernacle/mast step. But I can't envision a more easy to use and enjoyable option for the mast, which now for me has become essential.

If I had it to do again, since my last one involved strengthening the trunk anyway, I would use method number 2, using a shortened mast that is stepped on top of a forward extended CB trunk structure. That method would actually be less weight than what I have now. And although I realize others would not bother with the following, I prefer sailing only with a mains'l with at least two reef points, and slugs to slide in the mast slot instead of the sail's bolt rope, this change making reefing not only possible, but also MUCH easier, and quick, and therefore more likely when changing conditions are about to prove it is wise to reef.

The CV16 is fine if built exactly to the plans, but the tallish mast may have issues with some skippers, because it can be awkward to raise and lower. In the attitudes of indestructable youth, it is only a challenge to conquer, but once middle-age begins teaching one new lessons and improved ways of doing things to keep the body working well, a tabernacle system, or a necessary friend or two becomes obvious. The tabernacle and the friends is most ideal solution. But with the tabernacle, the mast is easily a one man easy and quick operation. :)

I have batteries forward and in the cuddy. This proved sufficient weight forward for me to climb aboard over the transom with a ladder, even with an 80 pound engine mounted on the starboard side (and ladder on the port side of the transom. The engine on the side drives the boat well, but slightly skewed. You're only going about 5 knots anyway, 7 or 8 down the backside of three to five foot waves. The boat likes the displacement hull speeds. Push it past 7 knots down a wave and you might get a few more gray hairs. It may be fun, but can go cattywampus quick.

In conclusion, I agree with Jacques regarding 5 minutes, but I add that when alone, it is realizable best with a tabernacle, else with a friend or two.

What I did with my maststep is here, but as I said, I would do it very differently next time, resulting in a much much much simpler solution and lighter mast. My existing solution allows all sorts of options and experimenting, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone. A simple *top of the CB trunk* tabernacle, with a shorter mast, is the way to go for a tabernacle, but it does require some minimal changes to the CB trunk, and how it mounts in the hull.

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