fairing material question?

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terrulian
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Re: fairing material question?

Post by terrulian » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:28 pm

Ooops! One correction on that experiment: When it failed, it was what is called a "substrate" failure, which means that the wood yielded before the epoxy.


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Netpackrat
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Re: fairing material question?

Post by Netpackrat » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:34 pm

The "microballoons" I used on my recent project were leftover from stuff I bought from Raka Marine 20+ years ago for another project. This was the white powder that I assume you are referring to as "glass bubbles"; I seem to recall they were sold as "microballoons" when I bought them, and that's what was written on the bags. I have also seen the same material referred to as "microspheres". The maroon microballoons are a different material (phenolic IIRC) but that doesn't mean that it is inaccurate to also refer to the white stuff as microballoons.

For fairing, I mixed 3 parts of the white microglassbubblesphereballoons with one part of cabosil, and added to mixed epoxy until the consistency seemed about right. :roll:

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Re: fairing material question?

Post by Dan_Smullen » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:55 pm

seaslug wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:18 am
Fallguy, I'm not sure if you're saying that you think the glass bubbles and micro balloons are the same thing, just with different names. They are totally different, the balloons being the light fluffy brownish stuff, and the glass bubbles being a white powder. The glass bubbles are the cheapest filler you can buy and I'm wondering why no one is using them. Chris Morejon, one of the original founders of Hell's Bay boats recommends 100% glass bubbles for fairing his foam hulls. I tried straight glass bubbles and didn't like the consistency and the way it spreads, but it works great if used along with the micro balloons, and I have no problems with pinholes. When you mix the two together it's very similar to the color of Quickfair, so I assume the Quickfair is some mix of Micro Balloons and some other white filler material. That being said, Quickfair is the smoothest, bestest, most stupendous stuff on the planet, I just can't afford it in large quantities. Mike
Hey, Seaslug! I like your answer the best! Not because of any science, but it seems like easy to follow instructions. To what ratio do you mix microspheres with mcroballoons?

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cape man
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Re: fairing material question?

Post by cape man » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:11 am

I went a page up and he uses 2;1 spheres to balloons.
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Re: fairing material question?

Post by seaslug » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:07 am

The only thing I worry about mixing accurately and precisely is the epoxy itself, otherwise fillers are just mixed in until I get the consistency I like for spreading, and that depends on whether it's on a flat or vertical surface. Not rocket science for sure, with the only caveat being, I don't use any of the structural fillers such as milled glass fibers or silica in my fairing mix because it's harder to sand. If your filler is sagging on vertical surfaces mix it a little thicker, or add a little silica, maybe 10%, which helps prevent sagging.

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Re: fairing material question?

Post by fallguy1000 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:04 pm

seaslug wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:07 am
The only thing I worry about mixing accurately and precisely is the epoxy itself, otherwise fillers are just mixed in until I get the consistency I like for spreading, and that depends on whether it's on a flat or vertical surface. Not rocket science for sure, with the only caveat being, I don't use any of the structural fillers such as milled glass fibers or silica in my fairing mix because it's harder to sand. If your filler is sagging on vertical surfaces mix it a little thicker, or add a little silica, maybe 10%, which helps prevent sagging.
Can you explain why you mix the bubbles and balloons? Or the perlite and the phenolics?
My boat build is here -------->

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seaslug
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Re: fairing material question?

Post by seaslug » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:42 pm

For a lot of years, not knowing anything else, I used straight West System 410 fairing filler, which I liked and was comfortable working with and liked the consistency, but it's stupid expensive and from what I can tell it's just micro balloons with their packaging for a huge mark up in price. I just used the glass bubbles for the first time last year on the recommendation of Chris Morejohn on one of his designs, the Conchfish 16 built in foam core. He likes to use straight bubbles, but I didn't like the way it spread so I mixed it with the micro balloons. Like I said earlier, I never measure my filler mix, just eyeball it and get it to the thickness I like for a particular application. I think the most important thing is to not mix in too much structural filler that makes it very difficult to sand fair. The glass bubbles are also a lot less expensive than the other fillers. Mike

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