Air in my finished product

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fallguy1000
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Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:39 pm

I can't seem to get the air pockets out of the table side of my laminates. I think these parts are not going to be usable for the waterline panels. I think this air is getting trapped between the corecell and the wetted glass. Keep in mind, gelcoat builders would never see this issue.

I used laminating rollers to get the laminate down onto the table. Here are my specs and process..

Table side is wetout with .71kg/m^2 epoxy.
22 ounce triax is wetout with 110% by weight, plus 10% more, laminating rollers remove excess air pocketing between table and part
Corecell is wetout with .71kg/m^2 epoxy
Corecell wetted side is placed onto wetted glass.
Corecell is wetted again with .71kg/m^2 epoxy
22 ounce triax is wetout with 110% by weight, less 10%
peelply
breather film overlapped
breather fabric overlapped (this did suck some resin into the panel edges)
bagged

Ran at 22-23" Hg.

Ideas?

I have a few samples I plan to try at 3' x 3' panels.

1. Running the same way, avoiding breather fabric on panel edges (doubt it will help)
2. Running with flow media panel under laminate, (scared of this one because I think the flow media side would go down onto the table and potentially create a bridge to the edges)
3. Running with peelply under laminate. (fear it will be useless and saturate resin and not get the air out)
4. Running at max pressure and leaving it there until the bleeding become too much (might work, but it is going to suck resin fast)
5. Running at 14" Hg ( a low pressure test, this might work by reducing the clamping pressure and allowing the resin to work its way out of the part)
6. Running without breather film and just allowing more saturation of the breather fabric.

epoxy was laid on top of this picture to enhance and show the issue is under the surface
this is table side issue, btw, the peeply side looks great
Photo Aug 28, 9 13 17 AM.jpg
Photo Aug 28, 9 13 12 AM.jpg
Photo Aug 27, 4 42 55 PM.jpg


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fallguy1000
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:43 pm

I think my first test will be double breather fabric, no breather film and cranked up pressure. It'll bleed out all the excess resin and probably result in a perfect lamination.

I think I might also do a resin test of the core by cutting a hole out of one of these panels I am rejecting. If I find that I am rather high on resin to fiber, it would tell me I'm rich in resin versus starved as I originally thought. It should be easy to do as I know the weights of the glass and core.
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Jeff
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by Jeff » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:52 pm

Fallguy1000, Please keep the information coming as this is a great leaning experience!! Jeff

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Evan_Gatehouse
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by Evan_Gatehouse » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:35 pm

I was building 666 gm/m2 triaxial - similar panels for my cat and similar results with test panels. Until I used "surface veil" against the table. It's a mat like layer that looks like tissue paper.

Like this:
http://www.fibreglast.com/product/Conti ... cing_Veils

USE less vacuum too. 15" is plenty. Excess vacuum will suck up resin through the holes in the core and leave the bottom layer resin starved.
designer: FB11/GV series/ HMD18/
SK17,21/MT24

fallguy1000
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:47 pm

Evan-the product you linked says it is not for use with epoxy.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:15 pm

This is bad. Dry
IMG_2920.JPG
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fallguy1000
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:16 pm

Where is the crying emogee?

How to fix?
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Jaysen
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by Jaysen » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:34 pm

I think you are looking for

Code: Select all

:cry:
I have no idea how to fix that.

:cry:
:cry:
:cry:
:cry:
:cry:

fallguy1000
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:17 pm

I have been informed by a professional boat builder that my calculations of epoxy are a wrong approach and that I need to use more resin than I have been. So, I will try to run some tests with higher resin volumes in my wetout.
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dbcrx
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Re: Air in my finished product

Post by dbcrx » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:52 am

Are you using breather fabric on the underside? If not the bag may seal on the table around the panel and not allow the air to be drawn out from underneath.
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