Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

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fallguy1000
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by fallguy1000 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:28 pm

No expert. i just know that when I used Raka on an already glass and epoxy Raka substrate; the neat coat had like ? 45,000 bubbles in it each time. Well, the second time I heated it prior to application and it had maybe only 44,000 bubbles, give or take.

The kind scientists at Systems 3 explained Silvertip has a compound that reduces the magic bubbles, aka outgassing.

When I pour a beer, bubbles good.

When I pour epoxy, bubbles bad. 44,000 bubbles really bad and no they don't all come out of the finish..


My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

Fuzz
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Fuzz » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:55 pm

Can anyone state, in plain language, what makes the high end epoxies better? I am thinking something like X is 10% stronger than Y. Or X will stand 10% more deflection than Y before failure. Fallguy says Marine Epoxies HDT is too low. I hate abbreviations and needing to remember what they mean.

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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Mike19 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:07 pm

fallguy1000 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:28 pm
No expert. i just know that when I used Raka on an already glass and epoxy Raka substrate; the neat coat had like ? 45,000 bubbles in it each time. Well, the second time I heated it prior to application and it had maybe only 44,000 bubbles, give or take.

The kind scientists at Systems 3 explained Silvertip has a compound that reduces the magic bubbles, aka outgassing.

When I pour a beer, bubbles good.

When I pour epoxy, bubbles bad. 44,000 bubbles really bad and no they don't all come out of the finish..
I understand now. Thanks.
I have never used Silvertip. I have used Aeromarine, Ebond, & now currently using Raka.
Aeromarine was good, but the price went up & shipping was too high from California to Florida.
Ebond was super cheap. Too much blush, & too thick for good wet out.
I like Raka so far. I keep a heat gun handy if i get bubbles. That usually helps with the bubbles.

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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by jacquesmm » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:46 pm

Fuzz, that would take books to explain.
An engineer will not say strong but compare flexural, tensile and compression strength. He will also look at hardness, toughness, glass transition temperature etc.
Altogether, when cured, Silver Tip will have better characteristics in all those areas than MarinEpoxy.
I still use MarinEpoxy in every wood and plywood application because it's properties are more than enough for epoxy plywood. The material would not be much better with Silver Tip because the resin is not the limiting factor.
If I have the choice, I would still use Silver Tip with plywood and glass for other reasons.
For foam sandwich, MarinEpoxy is too flexible. You don't have the stiffness of plywood to compensate and need a stiffer resin. It also has more tensile strength and is harder (scratch resistance).
it also has a higher TEG. That is glass transition temperature, what Fallguy calls HDT (High Distortion Temperature). We could say that it is the temperature at which the resin becomes too elastic and sees a drop in it's mechanical characteristics. Let's say it's the temperature at which you can mark the resin with your nail. High-performance resin must be post-cured to achieve maximum properties but MarinEpoxy cannot be heated that much. the whole laminate would become goey and loose it's shape.
I would still use Silver Tip instead of MarinEpoxy for other reasons. It is a very user friendly resin. It is more tolerant of mixing mistakes, better flow and wetting, lower viscosity, less air bubbles and above all, it has a longer pot life and a shorter cure time.
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Fuzz
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Fuzz » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:05 pm

Thank you very much Jacques :!:
That explains things very clearly in terms even us dummies can understand :lol:
I know you have always said to use SilverTip when working with foam and now I understand why.
I hope this helps others also :wink:

This is just another example of what you get here that will not happen other places. The input from the designers and the service from Jeff, Reid and the team is what makes this place special.

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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Marshall Moser » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:07 pm

Can you mix fillers in with Silvertip?

fallguy1000
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by fallguy1000 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Fuzz wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:55 pm
Can anyone state, in plain language, what makes the high end epoxies better? I am thinking something like X is 10% stronger than Y. Or X will stand 10% more deflection than Y before failure. Fallguy says Marine Epoxies HDT is too low. I hate abbreviations and needing to remember what they mean.
The hdt is the heat deformation temperature.

If you need to cook the boat as do I; the hdts of everything in the boat needs to be considered, so when you heat the boat up; part of it doesn't melt.

I have NEVER had S3 blush in like 130 gallons of work.

Never had any outgassing.

Hope my resin amounts are sufficient. I digress.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Aripeka Angler » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:05 pm

Marshall Moser wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:07 pm
Can you mix fillers in with Silvertip?
Absolutely, no problem.
I mixed in a variety of wood flour and cedar sanding dust to fill the nail holes and voids in the strip canoe.
Also, I used several gallons of years old leftover Silvertip on the FS18. Some as a base for fairing.
Not sure it’s been mentioned but the silvertip actually smells pretty good.
I’m allergic to epoxy and minimize exposure but I have less reactions to S3 epoxy.
All that said, marinepoxy is great epoxy as well...
Richard
Completed boats...XF20 "Red Alert", Aripeka Angler's Strip Canoe, FS18 “Bare Bones”, GF12
Currently building...PY12 Kayak
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. - Loren Eiseley
Bare Bones build thread...
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Capt UB » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:56 am

Just wandering if a longer and/or bigger boat build, should use one epoxy over the another?

Would it make a difference between a standard built FS14 vs FS14 low sheer, one being smaller and longer, the other taller (more ply).

LM18 standard vs LM18 low sheer....

More ply stronger boat?
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Re: Why use Silvertip Epoxy?

Post by Jaysen » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:21 am

If you think about what JM said ya more “if ou use ply core use Marin, if you are foam core use Silvertip, if you’re pure glass get something for that”

Maybe I read it wrong but it was about bend, crush and heat tolerance going with Silvertip over Marin.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

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