Need help with glass

See our FAQ and tutorials before posting.
User avatar
Capt UB
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 2872
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:12 pm
Location: DeLand, Florida
Location: Central Florida USA

Re: Need help with glass

Post by Capt UB » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:37 pm

jacquesmm wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:46 pm
OK, I thought it was the FS14. The LM18 has such a low freeboard that you go almost all the way up to the sheer with the 6" chine overlap.
And that boat is bigger and faster, it needs the glass you show while the FS14LS can be built lighter.
Ya, I like the FS14LS. Almost built it, but wanted the higher freeboard to keep the gators out!!! I did completely cover inside and outside on my FS14. Still with that extra weight my 9.8 4 stroke moves her just fine. Great design.


><((((º>¸.•´¯`•><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.¸¸><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.><((((º>

User avatar
OrangeQuest
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 2396
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:14 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Need help with glass

Post by OrangeQuest » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:09 pm

Ncsharker wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:08 pm
Capt UB wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:46 pm
Not the best photos.

You can see the over lap of 6" from the keel
.
outside cloth both.jpg
Thanx for the photo. But that part I understand.

What was bothering me is. The plans say I need 6 yards of glass.
So I ordered it. Now I’m finding out it’s yet another typo and I can’t use the glass I have ordered because it’s not big enough.

Soooo guess I need to now order 16 yards so I don’t have seems in my hull.

Awesome!!!!
Don't worry, you will use that 6yds somewhere. May even cut it down and use it as tape.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

Ncsharker
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:44 am
Location: Wilmington NC

Re: Need help with glass

Post by Ncsharker » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:46 am

OrangeQuest wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:09 pm
Ncsharker wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:08 pm
Capt UB wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:46 pm
Not the best photos.

You can see the over lap of 6" from the keel
.
outside cloth both.jpg
Thanx for the photo. But that part I understand.

What was bothering me is. The plans say I need 6 yards of glass.
So I ordered it. Now I’m finding out it’s yet another typo and I can’t use the glass I have ordered because it’s not big enough.

Soooo guess I need to now order 16 yards so I don’t have seems in my hull.

Awesome!!!!
Don't worry, you will use that 6yds somewhere. May even cut it down and use it as tape.

I’m sure I’ll figure out something to use it for.
But I’m honestly not very confident in following the plans at this point.
I’m not trying to insult. But this is the second major issue I have run into. Both do to the plans.

This is my first attempt at building and it was supposed to be a fun project.

Thus far it’s been a giant pile of frustration and wasted material and money.

User avatar
Netpackrat
Active Poster
Active Poster
Posts: 409
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:35 am
Location: Anchorage, AK

Re: Need help with glass

Post by Netpackrat » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:13 am

Ncsharker wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:46 am
I’m sure I’ll figure out something to use it for.
But I’m honestly not very confident in following the plans at this point.
I’m not trying to insult. But this is the second major issue I have run into. Both do to the plans.

This is my first attempt at building and it was supposed to be a fun project.

Thus far it’s been a giant pile of frustration and wasted material and money.
It's not at all uncommon to find typos and minor drafting errors in construction plans of all sorts, and not just boats, despite the designer's best efforts. They can be frustrating at the time when one of them trips you up, but it doesn't mean that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the design. No matter how thorough, no designer or draftsman is going to catch all of his own errors, and what you have experienced is unfortunately part of the process. The plans for the FS14LS have been out for maybe 3 years near as I can tell. In stumbling into this error, and MOST IMPORTANTLY bringing it to the designer's attention, there will now be one less mistake to trip up the next guy. So you did a good thing posting about it here. Lots of builders would just fix a problem, whether that meant ordering more material or working around some issue, but then not say anything about it, leaving the issue in place to possibly trip somebody else up. I've been guilty of this too.

At the risk of annoying you further, another point that matters is that you mentioned this is your first boat build. I'm not at all trying to be critical of you, but a more experienced builder would have been more likely to notice that the BOM was calling for only 6 yards of material where maybe 2-3 times that amount will actually be required. And again, that more experienced builder would have probably just ordered more material and built on (and maybe not mentioned it). This is why it is always a good idea to have the plans in hand and go over them until you really grok them before ordering material and cutting out parts. And you may well have done this for all I know and still not caught the typo.

One of my long-stalled projects is construction of a homebuilt airplane from plans (I may get back into it later if my kids show an interest in flying but I've lost most of mine, so otherwise it would be dumb to keep dumping time and money into a project that I love working on but won't fly enough to stay proficient). The origin of the design was that the designer built the first airplane mainly for his own use. It turned out pretty well so he drew up a set of plans in response to demand for them, which he then proceeded to sell. He also started building a second airplane from his own plans to prove them and uncover any errors that might have made their way in. And yes, there were minor drafting errors. My plans number was in the low 300s, and I bought them before the first customer built example had even flown. There were plenty of revisions that came after, whether in response to minor errors, or later on as better ways were found to do something. That said, the fundamental design was so sound that it was eventually turned into a kit aircraft by a company and there are many dozens of them flying now, both plans and kit built, some 20 odd years later. The issues found and fixed were all part of the process.

It sucks that the BOM was wrong and you will need to buy more material in order to build your boat. But while you are not wrong to be annoyed, don't lose sight of the positives of your choice of designs. There are few, if any other designers who are as available to their builders as JM, as willing to entertain changes, or as fast to respond to builder issues in a truly useful time frame. There are boat designers out there who are DONE with you as a builder once they have your money, even if their design turns out to be fundamentally borked. Or others who will get defensive and blame the builder for any problems rather than help to work through them. If it makes you feel any better, buy your replacement cloth somewhere else, but given that you chose the FS14LS as the best boat for you, don't be driven to compromise on something else (which will probably also not have perfect plans) out of frustration.

Edited: My reply originally referred to the LM18 that was also mentioned, I see that you are building an FS14LS but that doesn't really change my point.

User avatar
Capt UB
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 2872
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:12 pm
Location: DeLand, Florida
Location: Central Florida USA

Re: Need help with glass

Post by Capt UB » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:21 am

I had a great time building my SandPiper (FS14). I did order the CnC kit and Epoxy kit for the FS14. I now have a great boat!!! There were some drama (not nice) during the build, that past. Now I am building the (first time for all, BBC and me) CnC LM18 Round Chine Low sheer. You can read my build log and see the excitement and Drama!

You are building a boat with build history, lots of help and work arounds... One of the best builders has built one, read his post.


Take your time, I can honestly free your pain... I have been there! A lot of wood flour and good advice from this forum will get you there.

Build on...
Bob

.
It works out in the end... 8)
.
.
0202191327~2.jpg
0203191706~2.jpg
0211191822~2.jpg
><((((º>¸.•´¯`•><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.¸¸><((((º> ¸.•´¯`•.><((((º>

fallguy1000
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:25 am

Re: Need help with glass

Post by fallguy1000 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:33 am

Mertens is exceptionally strong about making corrections to plan errors.

My boat project is massive and had no materials bill.

Just specs.

I ordered 3 sheets of high density core 12 pound cuz I thought it was for transom. Specs called for 26 pound, not 12. The two transom sheets were 700 dollars in error. And the right stuff was cheaper at about 300. So I spent 700 xtra. :oops: Using it a bit here n there. I bought a roll of veil, $450 as an experiment. When I did my budget I should have added an ordering error line.

The 6 running yards error is not bait n switch, but certainly clerical.

Move past it. These are projects of a lifetime.

Kind regards.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

User avatar
OrangeQuest
Very Active Poster
Very Active Poster
Posts: 2396
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:14 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Need help with glass

Post by OrangeQuest » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:50 am

Ncsharker wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:46 am

I’m sure I’ll figure out something to use it for.
But I’m honestly not very confident in following the plans at this point.
I’m not trying to insult. But this is the second major issue I have run into. Both do to the plans.

This is my first attempt at building and it was supposed to be a fun project.

Thus far it’s been a giant pile of frustration and wasted material and money.
Anyone that has started something for the first time that is complex will get frustrated and get a feeling of giving up or think they are wasting their time and can't do it. Before you order more supplies and waste time, money and your patience, read through your plans again but write down how much tape it calls for, cloth and things like that. When it says to tape the seams, how many seams, the stringers and the frames all call for tape. If it calls for glass on the bottom and up the side and then over lap will it be cheaper to order it in 30" wide or 50" wide? Or you going to stick to the plans and do it exactly as the plans say or you going to add your personal touch to the boat? Things like the epoxy, if you have not worked with it before you will need extra to learn how it does and how to use the stuff. Also there is a learning curve that you will gain skills to make things easier and where you may be a little nervous on doing something you will realize the stress you had when first started is no longer there. And one thing you have not been doing enough is asking questions and posting thing you do not understand. This forum is your support group to help keep you on track.

I know this group has helped me a lot and I don't like staying in the lines, I like being outside the box and these guys keep me pretty close to the edge. :) Sometime you just need to walk away and collect your thoughts and post what you are confused about. If you continue your build you will look at it with pride on some days and others you will want to set a match to it all. I know I have printed my plans a few times and they wind up in the trash because I missed something. I used 12oz tape when my plans called for 6 oz. I didn't catch it till I was done taping in the stringers. The boat will still float (I hope) but it happens. You will get there.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
A. A. Milne

OneWayTraffic
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:13 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Need help with glass

Post by OneWayTraffic » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:01 am

I would suggest you read Dougster's LB22 thread sometime. I think he made nearly every mistake possible some twice. The build went on for years. At the end of it he had a really nice looking kickass boat.

My little D5 dinghy was a 3 month build. I had issues with miscut frames, wonky looking fillets, massive wrinkles on the bottom, poorly designed brackets for the dinghy wheels, leaking back compartment. All found, fixed and I built on. My dinghy is no show boat but it is solid, dependable and as long as you don't get too close it looks good as well. With what I learned, I will do a better job next time.

To be honest I don't know why Jaccques even bothers with bill of materials. Nearly everyone adds features here and there anyway. Glass on the decks,extra glass on the bottom, a nice console, custom rubrails...

I looked at the BOM and nesting diagram built the D5 with less ply than the plans stated by modifying a seat and used a lot more glass.

If I were you I'd buy the extra glass. Use nice long runs on the hull, it's less effort that way. Use the extra to glass the sole and up the sides. Sleep well knowing your boat is even tougher than designed. At the end of the day "it's nothing but a thing"

Dan_Smullen
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:02 pm
Location: VA

Re: Need help with glass

Post by Dan_Smullen » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:07 am

Capt UB wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:21 am
I had a great time building my SandPiper (FS14). I did order the CnC kit and Epoxy kit for the FS14. I now have a great boat!!! There were some drama (not nice) during the build, that past. Now I am building the (first time for all, BBC and me) CnC LM18 Round Chine Low sheer. You can read my build log and see the excitement and Drama!

You are building a boat with build history, lots of help and work arounds... One of the best builders has built one, read his post.


Take your time, I can honestly free your pain... I have been there! A lot of wood flour and good advice from this forum will get you there.

Build on...
Bob

.
It works out in the end... 8)
.
Cap’n. I have to say. That is the most glorious example of chicken salad out of chicken s**t I have ever seen.

Nice save!

terrulian
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 2724
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:29 am
Location: Marin County, CA
Contact:

Re: Need help with glass

Post by terrulian » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:34 am

What?? I dunno about you guys but I never made any mistakes, was never confused, fairing was a joy, sanding was bliss, not one blunder on the paint or holiday or run or smudge, and every step went perfectly. What a bunch of losers. And as to you, Captain, you say
lmost built it, but wanted the higher freeboard to keep the gators out!!!
I'm so disappointed that you're scared of a little alligator.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tony
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest