Wet on wet

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piperdown
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by piperdown » Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:49 am

fallguy1000 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:06 am
If you really want to do it right in two steps, peel ply all the tapes. Smoother surface with a key prepared..lower resin content for higher strength.

The bigger issues are mixing errors and blushing. Those can result in no bond.

Oh yeah, mixing errors can be a major time killer and pain in the rear! It took most of a day to remove some epoxy fairing that didn't cure right due to my own mixing error. Scraper, wood chisel and lots and lots of sandpaper to get back to the layer that was cured. Certainly makes you triple check the ratio of resin to hardner.


Eric (aka, piperdown)

"Give an Irishman lager for a month and he's a dead man. An Irishman's stomach is lined with copper, and the beer corrodes it. But whiskey polishes the copper and is the saving of him." --> Mark Twain

silentneko
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by silentneko » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:04 am

OneWayTraffic wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 5:21 am
silentneko wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:10 pm
Another thing to remember is how strong the secondary bond is with epoxy. Most studies I've seen have it at 95-98% of the primary bond. So with proper prep you will never notice a difference.
I have looked for studies on this and not found any. Obviously so much depends on brand, whether the epoxy is fully cured, surface prep etc.

Do you have any links to share?
I don't have any links on my new computer, but I know west systems had it on there info somewhere, and jamestown and epoxy works both did extensive tests on it. If memory serves both primary and secondary tested near 2000psi. Compared to polyester which was much lower at well under 1000psi.
Last edited by silentneko on Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe.....FS17 coming soon!

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Netpackrat
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by Netpackrat » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:27 pm

What Fallguy said. Peel ply adds some cost, but it saves a lot of sanding and washing for amine blush between layups. As for wet on wet, I tried to do a marathon layup session on the exterior of my boat and maybe I just work slow (actually, I know I do), but after spending most of a day trying to keep wet on wet going, I started screwing up towards the end simply from fatigue and ended up with some air bubbles that I had to deal with later. I would have been ahead of the game to just fill the corner voids, tape the seams, lay some peel ply over the tapes, and call it a day. Tried to do it all at once and also lay light cloth over the green tapes, and paid for it later.

Another thing I found was it was a good idea to have multiple logical stopping points planned prior to mixing the first batch of epoxy. That way if things were going well I could press on, but if (as usual) I ended up taking longer than planned, I could stop at a point that wouldn't create more difficulty picking back up later. Do as much prep work as possible (pre-cutting glass, etc) before going on epoxy time.

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Re: Wet on wet

Post by Dougster » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:07 am

I used some peel ply on the LB22 and found it difficult to do big surfaces by myself. Kept getting wrinkles. Still, it did make fairing a bit easier I guess. Re blush, I don't see why we have to fool with it. I've gone through maybe 15 gallons of slow marinepoxy and half as much Silvertip and never noticed any blush. I think I've read that the fast cure may be more likely to blush though.

Dougster

fallguy1000
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:08 am

Peel ply is handy, but skip it if you are close on gel times. It doesn't work on curing glass. It will pull the glass instead of sliding atop it.

But for tape work to be followed by layups; it is really a great way to go.
My boat build is here -------->

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Netpackrat
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by Netpackrat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:01 am

Not all peel ply is created equal... The stuff I used on this project was more flexible than what I had encountered in the past. I used West resin because I can get it locally and it works fine. Used the fast hardener exclusively because Alaska and I did the bulk of the glass work near the end of winter. So blush was a bit of a concern. My garage is heated but one thing I found worked well was to turn the heat down while I was working with resin to maximize the working time, and then turn it up a bit once I was done for the day.

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Re: Wet on wet

Post by Jaysen » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:56 pm

Netpackrat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:01 am
because Alaska
that covers a lot of things for you all...
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

narfi
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by narfi » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:03 pm

K.I.S.S.

The beauty of these boats is that someone with no experience can build a seaworthy and beautiful boat they can be proud of.

I don't know what experience level the OP is, but for me when I started with no experience building one of Jacques boats, I was very intimidated and was happy with the simple step by step procedure of doing a little at a time and seeing huge results.

Wet on wet is a nice theory, but completely unnecessary for the structural integrity of these boats as long as you sand between coats.
Peel ply is a nice theory, but completely unnecessary for the construction of these boats and for the inexperienced can induce its on issues that may not be obvious to the inexperienced.

Why complicate things? Just do it simply one step at a time, keep it clean and tidy, don't worry about all the advanced techniques until you have gotten comfortable with the simple ones.

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Netpackrat
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by Netpackrat » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:48 pm

Because I hate sanding, and I also want to reduce the amount of dust generated inside my workshop. Yeah, I probably picked the wrong method of boat building. :lol:

fallguy1000
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Re: Wet on wet

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:06 pm

Netpackrat wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:48 pm
Because I hate sanding, and I also want to reduce the amount of dust generated inside my workshop. Yeah, I probably picked the wrong method of boat building. :lol:
After you sand fillets; think a hundred feet, you ask yourself; do I want to sand the next 900 feet of fillets?

And you answer a resounding hell no.

It all comes down to work reduction.

Laying up in a singe go to reduce the work, or glassing over fillets or peel ply over tapes, etc.

All work reduction methods.

When you have an hours budget of 3000 and miss by 3000; you fast understand.

We will have like 600 hours sanding for the fairing on my boat...no lie. That is 300 man hours per hull...
My boat build is here -------->

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