Tipping not getting out lines.

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fallguy1000
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Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by fallguy1000 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:11 pm

Tipping lines were a pita to sand, but done.

We used 220 and polished with 320 and the whole boat is ready for another try.

We thinned the first time at 10% by weight.

We had 55%rh and about 65F.

Was it too cool?

I cranked the heat to 75F and am considering thinning to 15%.

Any other ideas?

We might also try tipping quicker behind the roller, but it takes a bit of time for the roller to get things even..


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seaslug
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by seaslug » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:11 pm

The worst paint job I've had with Awlgrip is when the temp was around 55 degrees, and I think the specs say not to paint below 54. I've had the best luck painting outside in the hot Florida sun, and thinning the paint more than you did. Roll really thin, use a high quality 3-4" wide natural bristle brush, not synthetic, and only roll about 16-20" along the hull before tipping. Always tip vertically, never horizontally, be sure to overlap your last stroke, and only tip once, unless you missed the overlap, than hit it again. Just leave it alone, and never go back unless there's a really bad sag that will make you crazy later. If you're too far down the line though, the re-brush usually makes it worse and the fix is worse than the original sag. I think hot temps are better, thinning out more than you think you should, and working fast and methodical with no go backs. I'm no expert, but I've had some roll and tips look like a spray job, and some others that showed some brush strokes. I find it's so damn shiny no one ever notices slight defects. Mike

fallguy1000
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by fallguy1000 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:39 pm

seaslug wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:11 pm
The worst paint job I've had with Awlgrip is when the temp was around 55 degrees, and I think the specs say not to paint below 54. I've had the best luck painting outside in the hot Florida sun, and thinning the paint more than you did. Roll really thin, use a high quality 3-4" wide natural bristle brush, not synthetic, and only roll about 16-20" along the hull before tipping. Always tip vertically, never horizontally, be sure to overlap your last stroke, and only tip once, unless you missed the overlap, than hit it again. Just leave it alone, and never go back unless there's a really bad sag that will make you crazy later. If you're too far down the line though, the re-brush usually makes it worse and the fix is worse than the original sag. I think hot temps are better, thinning out more than you think you should, and working fast and methodical with no go backs. I'm no expert, but I've had some roll and tips look like a spray job, and some others that showed some brush strokes. I find it's so damn shiny no one ever notices slight defects. Mike
Thank you Mike. I think all this advice is helpful. We were pretty disciplined about rolling thin and not getting too far ahead, but we did not use a brush to tip as the area was just too big and the tipping brush loaded up too much in its 40-50" run. We also only tipped vertically and we overlapped always, any sag, (there were not many) I hit with a brush quick.

I have the heat cranked up and that ought to help, along with adding some thinner. Say to 15%..
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BarraMan
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by BarraMan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:09 pm

1) is your paint designed to be "rolled and tipped"?
2) "use a high quality 3-4" wide natural bristle brush" - I actually used several! As soon as one loaded up with paint I swapped to a "new" clean brush.
3) have the "tipper" following close behind the "roller"

I painted my 6.7 M hull this way - good as gold!

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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by fallguy1000 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:29 pm

BarraMan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:09 pm
1) is your paint designed to be "rolled and tipped"?
2) "use a high quality 3-4" wide natural bristle brush" - I actually used several! As soon as one loaded up with paint I swapped to a "new" clean brush.
3) have the "tipper" following close behind the "roller"

I painted my 6.7 M hull this way - good as gold!
Thanks for the reply.

1. Yes, Epifanes 2 part is designed to roll and tip
2. The boat is too big to tip with a 4" brush. We are tipping with a 9" wide cut in half the longway piece of foam roller on a vice grip. It tips nice, but the lines are just not flowing out.
3. We were very careful to avoid getting too far ahead.

We are going to try to put a flat board in the rolling off pan as well.

I think the paint was not thinned enough and the room a tad cool.
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fallguy1000
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by fallguy1000 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:04 am

Well, this really is a bummer, but we repainted after sanding everything and increased out thinner rate and temperature, but still have lines. I think the thinner rate was still too low. We used rates between 13-15%, but I was tipping and I could really feel my tipping brush start to load at times. The tipping brush worked well at the start and at the beginning we had no lines.

Since I have no idea how fast the thinner is flashing off, it is my assumption that it is flashing off rather quickly after using high thinner rates twice, but not really enough thinner for a nice finish.

I am not painting it more at this time. I need to get the decks painted and bottom and get it sanded on the interior and holes covered and out of the building so I can get the work done on the cabin. Maybe if I stare at it long enough outside, I'll get a better idea about how good or bad it looks from 6 feet away.

If I decide the paint job is simply too hideous, we may attempt spraying next summer.

The thing that really bothers me is the thinner rates recommended are clearly not high enough for our situation.

Another poster on another board said rolling and tipping is best on wood planked hulls because the lines need be only less than the grain lines of the wood.
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pee wee
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by pee wee » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:50 am

Getting the right consistency to the paint is key, and hard to do; nobody can tell you what the perfect mix is because it is different for every set of conditions, and conditions will change during the day, and sometimes conditions don't favor applying paint at all. Your hull is so big that your paint mix may need to be adjusted slightly between the time you start and the time you finish. Use a test board, piece of cardboard, etc. to check before you start, get things just right before you proceed. You seem to be getting better results than you did at first, so you're getting it.

Like Seaslug, I've had the magic results at times where I thought the paint was just too watery but it flowed out and looked sprayed even though it was brushed on. If only I could do that every time, I could give advice on how to do it right. :lol:
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by fallguy1000 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:07 pm

pee wee wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:50 am
Getting the right consistency to the paint is key, and hard to do; nobody can tell you what the perfect mix is because it is different for every set of conditions, and conditions will change during the day, and sometimes conditions don't favor applying paint at all. Your hull is so big that your paint mix may need to be adjusted slightly between the time you start and the time you finish. Use a test board, piece of cardboard, etc. to check before you start, get things just right before you proceed. You seem to be getting better results than you did at first, so you're getting it.

Like Seaslug, I've had the magic results at times where I thought the paint was just too watery but it flowed out and looked sprayed even though it was brushed on. If only I could do that every time, I could give advice on how to do it right. :lol:
Honestly, this is the best advice I got on the subject.

Between you and SS, I bet things will improve on hull 2.
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by silentneko » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:48 pm

I have never had success using a foam brush to tip. Once they load up they don't smooth, just push the paint to the outside edges or gaps. I only got decent results with a soft natural haired, or soft synthetic that was rated to be used with solvents.
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Re: Tipping not getting out lines.

Post by terrulian » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:13 pm

I'm gratified, under the heading of schadenfreude, to find that I'm not the only one who was exasperated by painting. It seems like I tried at least a dozen combinations of brushes, rollers, thinning, and temperature. But I finally got it and now can do it easily, which is kind of astonishing. Really good light is essential, for one thing. Nothing I could tell you would really be applicable as you are a different guy with a different climate, so ignore this, but what eventually worked was not thinning too much, putting a lot of paint on about 1 square yard at a time with a foam roller, and then tipping with the same roller with most of the paint out of it, by BARELY touching the surface. It's not what I've seen recommended by anyone else, so, like I say, ignore it except for the bit about it taking a huge amount of experimentation. Best of luck. :D
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