Economic cruiser - design input?

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jacquesmm
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Post by jacquesmm » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:25 pm

In a way, I will shop for new/old ideas.
I will be in the Netherlands and besides METS, I will visit some spots where I sailed 35 years ago. B
Boats from the north are different and I should design some. Until now, many of my designs were influenced by Florida, my new home but I feell like going back to my roots, the North Sea.
Those boats will be ideal for your area.


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Post by TW28RJ » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:42 pm

Jacques,

I have plans for a 40 foot full disp from 1962.. similar looking to the TW28, very New England like.. I'll snail mail them to you. Be on the look out for them when you get back to FL

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Post by jacquesmm » Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:49 pm

Great, thank you.
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gk108
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Post by gk108 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:40 pm

Spokaloo wrote:Jog Along:

Image

22' long, outboard powered cruiser with a head.

E
The Jog Along is one of my favorites. :D
CC, D15, V10

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chicagoross
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Post by chicagoross » Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:09 pm

Atkin's Jog-along would be an interesting "conversion" to stitch and glue - I'd build that! If you read the description of its alleged charactaristics, that's what I want! The panels (designed for aluminum?) look straight enough to do in ply. I would think the OBs should be doing the steering, and a more conventional cabin layout, but if I could build that plan in ply/epoxy I would. It looks like a winner.

The culler plans on the forum category look like a winner too.

MT24 considered, but frankly it has passed the line past where it's really "towable".

I can't argue that deisels are really the best for a displacement cruiser, however, especially for the home builder, there is a simplicity of hanging an outboard and being done that will not be matched; there are also initial cost savings, and the ability to easily upgrade...I'll be building for a small outboard.

P21 is perfect size! Looks good! Needs too much power. A thread last month or so compared the NV23 hull to that of the P21 and said they were almost the same - so why does the smaller one need so much power? We troll, need a boat that "behaves" at displacement speeds. If it could get up to 12-18 mph in a semiplaning mode, so much the better. I don't want 30 mph. I'd rather spend half as much for the new outboard and not have to budget for a day's fuel to go out...

I'm with Spokaloo here. If you are interested in economy and classic appearance, we need to re-examine designs from when there were'nt any 200 hp outboards guzzling 18 gallons per hour...I'd be building nina too except I want a little more in the way of accommodations I like to be on the water as much as possible, but I think people are getting tired of the higher and higher cost of "go fast". The family has no interest in pounding and my back won't take it anymore. There are people that need to fish 60 miles out, and do need a CS boat; I don't and can't afford it.

Anyhow, some good suggestions and thanks to all! keep the ideas coming! If at all possible, consider simple outboard options for some of the new displacement or semi-displacement designs, I know that it's hard because of weight distribution, but there will always be a few that prefer an outboard. Thanks!

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Post by gk108 » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:29 pm

chicagoross wrote:Atkin's Jog-along would be an interesting "conversion" to stitch and glue - I'd build that! If you read the description of its alleged charactaristics, that's what I want! The panels (designed for aluminum?) look straight enough to do in ply. I would think the OBs should be doing the steering, and a more conventional cabin layout, but if I could build that plan in ply/epoxy I would. It looks like a winner.
I agree about the steering. You can tell by the comments that it was designed in a era when outboards were unreliable. A modern version would only require one motor, I would think. Probably the same one Evan recommends for the Maia. I'd still keep the mast and boom, though. Shuffling the cabin around would be necessary anyways because that cast iron stove would have to go. One other thing I like about it is the bulwarks. They make the whole front of the boat look more user friendly. 8)
CC, D15, V10

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Post by Spokaloo » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:36 pm

More food for thought:

Most have been practical examples, but lets add a little whimsy to see some opinions:

Image

This would make an excellent cruiser, but might be a little too purposeful, and would need to be changed accomodations wise as well. Very salty little bugger though.

Here is another with a salty air, and more functional:

Image

Image

And usable accomodations:

Image

I like that one quite a bit, very complex build as it is, but reconfigured to what we like here would be a great boat. Could be designed two different directions, with true displacement and semi-planing as well.

This just has so much charm and style, salt and elegance, that it begs to be posted as an idea:

Image

Maybe do a shortened adaptation of the FL26 lines to 22 feet (this one happens to be 18) as a diesel, or make it a true outboard tiller setup as the Culler boat is, and set to the dual-cabin approach.

I just want to point out to everyone that usually these types of posts are looked down upon at other builder's forums. We are posting competitors (not necessarily direct competition, as the construction methods are night and day different) photos, and critiquing them, which in some people's eyes could lead someone to purchase plans elsewhere.

It is a very open minded staff at Bateau to allow this type of thread to progress, let alone get involved. We should be appreciative of what we have here, so lets explore these plans, and put more on Jacques' and Evan's plates!

E

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Post by chicagoross » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:00 pm

Absolutely! The quality, friendliness, and openess of the forum here is not found elsewhere. That and the variety and asthetics of the plans here made me want to buy plans and try out the building technique, which was not easy for me as a ply-on-frame builder. I know this building method is stronger and lighter than conventional, which is why I'm trying it out. Epoxy and supplies here very expensive, so for me it's not a cheaper method, and not easier for me so far. But stronger/lighter is a big thing, the quality and completeness of the plans (I've only bought HMD18 and built a free-plan D4) is a big thing too - less time sitting in the thinking chair (and hopefuly less in the crying chair). When you do need the thinking, you can get practical experience and ideas here unlike anywhere else. Thank you Bateau!

Spokaloo - I think Maia is too much for me right now; Boojum's more like a 30' boat squashed in to 22'; needs a semi-tractor to tow. I've admired the next one as you have, but as you said a complex build; that would be one I'd be very interested in in this building method. I also like his (26') outboard powered "river" boat, makes me think of your nina with basic accomodations. It too would benefit greatly from a Bateau method redesign. Finally Alder's cute, but in that size the HMD18 gives me a lot more boat for my money, a vee-hull, and a lot simpler and cheaper propulsion system.

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Post by jbo_c » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:06 pm

I gotta agree with the outboard comments. Inboard shuts down any design for me.

Jbo

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Post by Spokaloo » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:00 am

I really think Alder holds tremendous promise. She can easily be turned into an outboard, with the same helmsman's position. One could even mount it in the well, then attach the motor to a wood tiller to preserve the look, if you were so inclined. Id definitely like to see it redrawn at 22 feet though, since 18 feet isn't going to offer much in the way of accomodations. Imagine it stretched a bit, with more cabin (though of the same height). Would be a very handsome craft, and extremely handy.

Look at the FL hull shape:

Image

Id think Jacques could use the same ideas to give her more semi-displacement speeds than the 5kts offered by the original design. Having a boat like it, which can do 12-15 kts in advance of a squall sure would be convenient.

E

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