YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by fallguy1000 » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:46 am

Did you guys see the pricetag?

It is going to take someone smarter than me to do an apples to apples comparison. To simply pass because of different fuel is really not reasoned.

I'd want to know how the two would compare on my boat as follows:

Liters per hour at optimal fuel consumption and the associated speed. If comparing both at optimal for the Skoota 32DM, I'd honestly say the Skoota cruising speed is going to be optimal somewhere around 10 knots, based on conversations with the designer. It isn't a planing hull. And, both motors would probably end up at similar fuel economy. Most reports of the F70 in the middle of its range are around 12lph. So, let's assume that a non-planing hull gets double better fuel economy with the smaller, but heavier 50hp diesel at 6lph. It'd be at the expense of the top end output of the F70, if you want to use it.. And then, the buyer takes all the risk with that crazy contraption of the double crankshaft, double rod, double journal business. If the diesel engine fails, it is going to cost as much (more) to fix as a new Yammie. What happens when a rod bearing goes in that thing? And how many boats plan to trim with 400 pounds versus 270 pounds on the arse end?

I wanted to like it Peter. Honestly. But given all the weight, I'd rather put in the Yanmar inboard engine. At just 56 pounds more, you'd get the reliability of proven design. Of course, that was never an option for the Skoota, but only because of the high cost of the inboards which are about 20k each vs 7500 each for the F70. And I never found a price, but saw an article that said they were going to price at 29,000 Euros! They figured they would only be marketing to superyachts that didn't have gas onboard.

Couldn't believe it, so I copied the link for you. Maybe they mean 29000 rupees! No. I think more like $35,000 USD.
http://www.maritimejournal.com/news101/ ... production

They have a long way to go to prove the concept. I'd say the best thing they could do is run some of these to failure and report the findings. So, the engines run at 4000 rpms constant for 365 days for 24 hours to failure, and you know you have a 8000 hour motor, or at least a motor that outlasts gas for the up front costs, too.

maybe someone can find the real price for them now that Yanmar got involved


My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by Christer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:39 am

peter-curacao wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:23 pm
poleposition wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:09 am
50hp, just shy of 400 pounds. So ~130 pounds more than a Yamaha F70 but it makes more torque.
I understand because of it's lower gas prices this may be less interesting in the US, but it maybe very interesting for my fellow Dutch countrymen and our European boat building friends. 8)

Image
Yup, Norway represented here. I'm very in favour of a high output diesel outboard as diesel is usually NOK 1-3 lower priced than petrol, and diesel engines generally burn a lot less fuel than petrol engines, making them very economically viable in Norway.

I looked around a bit and found OXE Diesel Outboards (http://www.oxe-diesel.com) which looks promising. I couldn't find anything indicating the outboards are in production or when they eventually will be, but if they can bring high-powered (200-400HP) diesel outboards to market in Scandinavia at a lower or at least similar price point as the petrol-driven versions, they may have a real winner.
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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by peter-curacao » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:55 am

To be honest I don't know the price of that engine, the article you linked is from Jan. 2015 so almost 3 years now , a lot can have changed in that period, never the less € 29000,- or US$ 34000,- is steep very steep.
Most reports of the F70 in the middle of its range are around 12lph. So, let's assume that a non-planing hull gets double better fuel economy with the smaller, but heavier 50hp diesel at 6lph.
Assuming your fuel economy numbers are right, and I do think they are in the ballpark, there is a fuel cost saving of about € 12,35 = US$ 14,50 per hour (calculated with Dutch Fuel prices of today), that also is steep and a significant saving if you ask me, unfortunatly not significant enough against the price tag you mentioned.

Throughout this thread I said this is interesting or could be interesting, I never claimed is was better or cheaper with exception of the fuel prices that is, I also never compared it with other outboards (others did and I replied) because imho you simply can't, as you also can't compare it with a Yanmar inboard, IMO again 2 different things (apart from the fact that it are all engines), that's why my remark apples and oranges.

As for the "new" technique, there is always risk involved when buying something new, prices probably drop and the product normally gets better over the years, for example to name something recently look at Tesla. Some people will try it right away, others stay reserved for a while and then others will stay forever with what they are used to, that's all okay. Still I thought it was interesting to mention this OB that's why I started this thread, if/when price tag drops it becomes even more interesting, I surely hope this OB will make it but only time will tell.

BTW I couldn't paste an exel sheet, but if you wanna know how I came to those fuel numbers with a US$ 14,50 per hour saving I can sent it to you, although I don't think European gas prices are all that interesting to you :wink:
Last edited by peter-curacao on Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by peter-curacao » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm

Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:39 am
I looked around a bit and found OXE Diesel Outboards (http://www.oxe-diesel.com) which looks promising. I couldn't find anything indicating the outboards are in production or when they eventually will be, but if they can bring high-powered (200-400HP) diesel outboards to market in Scandinavia at a lower or at least similar price point as the petrol-driven versions, they may have a real winner.
I'm a 100% sure they are a winner unfortunately it's seems like it's not very easy to fabricate, when I started to build my CS in 2008 for a while there was a company based in I believe Miami what had a higher powered "outboard", well it was not a real outboard it was more like a box hanging from the transom with a complete package inside, diesel engine + jetdrive never heard from them again, cool concept though 8)

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by Christer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm

peter-curacao wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm
Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:39 am
I looked around a bit and found OXE Diesel Outboards (http://www.oxe-diesel.com) which looks promising. I couldn't find anything indicating the outboards are in production or when they eventually will be, but if they can bring high-powered (200-400HP) diesel outboards to market in Scandinavia at a lower or at least similar price point as the petrol-driven versions, they may have a real winner.
I'm a 100% sure they are a winner unfortunately it's seems like it's not very easy to fabricate, when I started to build my CS in 2008 for a while there was a company based in I believe Miami what had a higher powered "outboard", well it was not a real outboard it was more like a box hanging from the transom with a complete package inside, diesel engine + jetdrive never heard from them again, cool concept though 8)
If you look at the videos they have for each tab on the website, they seem to have running prototypes on the water. If that was in 2015, approvals should be nearing completion to allow for mass production soon-ish (2018-2019). At that point I'm probably still wondering which pilothouse to put on my hull... :p
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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by peter-curacao » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm

Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm
If you look at the videos they have for each tab on the website, they seem to have running prototypes on the water. If that was in 2015, approvals should be nearing completion to allow for mass production soon-ish (2018-2019).
Cool 8) Just looked at the videos very interesting especially the lower unit belt drive.
Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm
At that point I'm probably still wondering which pilothouse to put on my hull... :p
Nah I think you would have made a decision by then 8)

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by Christer » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:32 pm

peter-curacao wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm
Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm
If you look at the videos they have for each tab on the website, they seem to have running prototypes on the water. If that was in 2015, approvals should be nearing completion to allow for mass production soon-ish (2018-2019).
Cool 8) Just looked at the videos very interesting especially the lower unit belt drive.
The modular design and the belt drive opens up a lot of possible mods in the future, some of which they probably have already tought of, like the ability to quickly swap between shaft lengths for navigating in different waters. Not sure how useful that would be when I think of it, unless you have many boats and only one engine... I dunno. It's a possibility, anyway. Easier maintenance and the ability to pop out one module and replace that is also very intriguing, as it could very well mean fewer trips to the service center and regular maintenance before/after the season could be done at home with simple/regular toolkits.
peter-curacao wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:27 pm
Christer wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:16 pm
At that point I'm probably still wondering which pilothouse to put on my hull... :p
Nah I think you would have made a decision by then 8)
I would likely at least have the hull built :)
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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by peter-curacao » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:43 pm

peter-curacao wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:05 pm
when I started to build my CS in 2008 for a while there was a company based in I believe Miami what had a higher powered "outboard", well it was not a real outboard it was more like a box hanging from the transom with a complete package inside, diesel engine + jetdrive never heard from them again, cool concept though 8)
Haha :lol: :lol: what is on the internet stays on the internet, seems they still exist or at least their website does http://www.daytonamarinepropulsion.com/

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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by Evan_Gatehouse » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:51 pm

Its for the commercial workboat market. Having diesel instead of gasoline is a big attraction in the commercial world. Huge headache to store gas on a workboat.
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Re: YANMAR LAUNCHES THE DTORQUE 111 TURBO DIESEL OUTBOARD

Post by Newt » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:06 pm

My first thought was for a houseboat. Never thought about a workboat. :D

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