Thinking out loud

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OrangeQuest
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Thinking out loud

Post by OrangeQuest » Tue May 29, 2018 12:52 pm

Limber holes, floatation, drains and routing all chase tubes. FS14 doesn't have a lot of frame height below the sole (3") for all the holes needed to run everything and still have any kind of strength left. I have been thinking about this for a long , very long time without much hope of a solution. :idea:
Why do I need to run the sole drains all the way back to the stern or the drain for the fore deck lockers? Why can't I seal off the front aft bench frame and drain everything to there? One single floor drain for the sole that dumps right into that area and the fore deck drain too. Large wave, really hard down pour or anything else where a large amount of water comes into the boat quickly need to get to the bottom of the boat quickly and not be running through pipe that could be pitching and rolling with the boat. Once it gets below the sole the pump will pump it overboard.
https://images.homedepot-static.com/pro ... 4_1000.jpg

Then I should be able to put more flotation foam in the aft area to help counterbalance the weight of the motor if swamped.



fallguy1000
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue May 29, 2018 4:20 pm

Limbers barely affect strength.

Any big wave in a 14' boat is considered dangerous and if you get many come over; you WILL swamp.

I swamped two times in my life; both at landing or shore; bringing a boat in on following seas.

As for for'd locker drains; they can head outboard in a thru hull if high enough, or just run into bilge.
My boat build is here -------->

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=62495

TomW1
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by TomW1 » Tue May 29, 2018 6:29 pm

Limber holes do not affect strength, they are at a bottom of a triangle where strength is minimal. For your chase tube holes they need to be drilled in the middle of the frames. Again the strongest part of the frame. Separate them by an 1 1/2" tp provide a girder between each hole.

Here is a thought on floatation foam. Foam the side compartments, the front and rear and cut limber holes to the center which doesn't have foam. This is more than you need to float the boat but will make it sturdier.

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by OrangeQuest » Tue May 29, 2018 7:03 pm

TomW1 wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 6:29 pm
Limber holes do not affect strength, they are at a bottom of a triangle where strength is minimal. For your chase tube holes they need to be drilled in the middle of the frames. Again the strongest part of the frame. Separate them by an 1 1/2" tp provide a girder between each hole.

Here is a thought on floatation foam. Foam the side compartments, the front and rear and cut limber holes to the center which doesn't have foam. This is more than you need to float the boat but will make it sturdier.

Tom
Tom I did the chase tube holes just like you said but I just drilled the pilot holes. They are centered in the middle of the frame both top to bottom and side to side, with about a 1.5" gap when I then drill them out. I figured I needed 4 down the middle. Main wiring, Aux wiring, fuel and a fore deck area drain, drain being lowest. The shift control and steering cables will be under the gunwale and the transducer cable on the other side...maybe, but they will all have their own tubes. I was going to add foam on both sides and down the middle, under the sole and thinking the space under the sole at the rear would be where I would drain the sole to. Foam under the tank wells with a small limber hole to the aft center with an aux bilge pump, float switch and transom drain for when the boat is on the trailer. I was also thinking two more drain tubes from main bilge to aux bilge so if the main bilge gets overwhelmed then it could drain into the aux. Put them just below the frame angled down to the aux bilge with small flapper valves.

My thoughts are that the biggest area water can get in the boat is the cockpit and when it does the only way to get rid of it is to pump it out. If the boat is in rough seas, which like Fallguy pointed out is dangerous, then the faster it gets to a confined area for removal the better the chance of talking about it later. I am no stranger to small boats in rough seas and I don't like swimming.

These are just my thoughts I am sharing in hopes of finding the best way or better ways to do it. Thanks guys for your input.

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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by TomW1 » Tue May 29, 2018 10:11 pm

The best way to get rid of water on the deck is with scuppers. The FS14 is designed with the deck slightly above the water line and I believe you raised it another 1 1/2". Or was that Capt UB I sometimes get confused watching both your builds. :lol: Any way as long as you are moving forward you will be draining water from the deck through the scuppers. By all means do not use small scuppers use a 5 x 3 or something like that. You want to get rid of the water before the next wave hits. I have seen guys use a 1" hole so they can plug it and its like drowning in the bath tub as wave after wave hit them. Here are scuppers from Hamilton Marine check them out https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/inet/st ... D=scuppers

Tom
Restored Mirror Dinghy, Bought OD18 built by CL, Westlawn School of Yacht Design courses.

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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by Fuzz » Wed May 30, 2018 2:28 am

It is tough to make scuppers work in small boats. You just do not have enough deck height above the water line to have true scuppers. If you use non plugging types you will almost always end up with a wet deck. If things are well sealed it is no problem but it can be a pain in the rear. I like the idea of having more floatation than what is needed and enough high floatation to keep the boat from turning turtle when swamped. If the hull remains stable when swamped it is not that big of a deal. I have swamped my 13 foot whaler a couple of times. I just grabbed the gas tank, stood up,gave it the gas and watched the water roll out over the stern.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by OrangeQuest » Wed May 30, 2018 6:15 am

The sole will be below or close enough to the water line that scupper openings will not be an option. But large drains straight to the bilge are. Was at Home Depot looking at yard drains and I found a few I really like. 4", 6", 8" and even 12" square drains that are plenty strong enough to stand and walk on. cone shaped large round openings below. Starts out at attaches to 4" drain pipe. Few of those things mounted flush with the sole will act the same as scuppers on clearing water off the deck and not sloshing around on deck. To small of drains and/or long tubes just won't do it. Also I don't plan on having a transom drain that can be used when the boat is in the water, it will use a threaded "garboard ?" plug from the outside.

I am not saying the boat will be going into areas a small craft should not be to start with but I have been know to come to the aid of others in very bad situations. A boat that is stopped to pull someone out of the water is not able to keep positioned in the best way to fight off the elements.

Tom if you were to look back at when I started thinking about building an FS14 and we was trying to figure out roughly the weight, I think I mentioned that when it comes to safety gear I will have a lot more than a normal boater.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by OrangeQuest » Wed May 30, 2018 9:49 am

This is the area I was thinking would make a better main bilge. More area and the angle will help keep the water at the pump longer and a straight "dump" from the sole. At the transom any angle in the hull is filled with layers of tape and glass. I would also have to cut through two frames and possibly the stringers to run large drain tubes to get water from the sole to the little bilge. Main bilge 19"X 28"X <4", aux bilge is 19"X 8" X <3".
3067

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Capt UB
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by Capt UB » Wed May 30, 2018 10:03 am

Fuzz is right, FS 14 to low for scuppers, unless you like to fish with wet feet!
I have never been swamped on a boat with a freeboard like the FS14.... I have been all over with my Gheenoes, close to being swamped...

I used 5200 around the PVC going through the frames (they are coated with epoxy).
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Home built boats, get their personality from the builder... My boat is NUTS!!! FS14, getting wet soon.... Next build; LM18 (Laguna Madre Skiff 18). This is a beautiful designed boat.

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OrangeQuest
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Re: Thinking out loud

Post by OrangeQuest » Wed May 30, 2018 3:10 pm

Well, after thinking I had a great plan on worst case scenario planning. None of my bilge pumps are low profile enough to fit under the sole!!! 8O :(
My little 500gph with float switch comes close but no and the 1200gph pump missed by more than 1/4 inch! I could make a custom mount for the little one but it would reduce the 500gph flow rate to much.


More thinking will be involved! :doh: :help:

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