Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

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Christer
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Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Christer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:07 am

Hi all,

My recent obsession with the CS25/CX25/CS28/30 with or without pilothouse aside, I got my current boat out of the water recently, and decided there are too many things wrong with it to warrant repairs, so I need a new boat for next season.

The current boat is a Norwegian-made factory boat of the "Unik" brand. It's a 15' "skjærgårdsjeep", which I think would translate into "bay boat". It's meant for fishing and recreational trips in protected waters, but can go a bit further out in good conditions. It's completely open, has a console at the rear with a wheel, switch panel and throttlebox.

The list of current problems:
1. It's too small. I lose more than 2' at the rear with the rear stepping area and motorwell, and another 1.5' in the bow. So effectively, it's a 12.5' boat.
2. It's too heavy. Some years ago I rebuilt the deck/sole and probably put in way too much fibreglass and epoxy, so it's a lot heavier than before and struggles to get on plane with the 30HP (max) 2-stroke that's on it. It also it quite bow-heavy and digs itself into the water when letting off the throttle.
3. There is a hole in the bottom of the outer hull which leaks water into the double bottom (bilge?) under the interior sole. This is a fibreglass boat, and I'm sure this isn't healthy for the hull.
4. Water is leaking into the tank well and I have no idea where it's coming from.
5. The freeboard is too low (partly because it's too heavy and floats too deep and partly because it's not a very good design).
6. Water sploshes over the bow at low speed and into the boat, soaking everyone and everything in doing so.

There will likely be more popping up as I start working on it, so I'm looking for opinions by experienced folks to plan the next course of action.

A few points to consider:
- I'm not emotionally attached to the boat, despite having spent months doing her up two years ago and spending lots of money.
- I'm happy that I have a boat at all, but it's not a very good boat and I want/need something bigger.
- The boat that I want is a CS/CX25/28 with a pilothouse of some sort, but at the moment that's out of the question due to cost, no space to build it and life in general. This is about opinions for the boat I need.

I was thinking that I could extend the hull of the current boat by 4' by glueing in a sheet of ply covered in epoxy and glass. There is a section on the boat that lends itself to cutting; the bottom is fairly straight and it should be relatively easy to replicate and extend the shape of the hull at that point. The problem I foresee is that as this is pretty much smack on the center of planing, there will be a lot of stress there and it will likely fail while doing 25mph and we'll all die. So I've thrown out that idea and am stuck with 15' LOA.

Two years ago I fixed two holes in the bottom, but either the repairs have come undone or there are more holes I didn't see. The entire bottom would need to be sanded down, cleaned, inspected and repaired, then repainted and new antifouling applied. This takes a lot of time.

The deck/sole needs to come out completely and be redone in a better way that doesn't block drains and collect water. It also needs to be lighter. This is also a big job.

Should I just rip out whatever hardware I can, dump the boat and build a new one, or would you invest the time and money in fixing it?

Also keep in mind that I live in Norway, and whenever anything is meant for marine use, it's 3-5 times more expensive than normally. And normally, things are 3-4 times more expensive over here than in the US to begin with.

If building a new boat:

Transport/storage:
I would like to be able to reuse the trailer that I bought brand new in 2015. It's rated for boats up to 750kg (1650lbs) fully rigged, with engine and full tanks and 17' in length. Not sure if that includes the engine, but let's assume it doesn't. We're thus looking for a boat with 17' LOA.

Layout:
The boat needs to have lots of room inside, ideally seating for 6-8 people, high freeboard and some storage lockers for pontoons, rope, anchor and such. The storage lockers can be under the benches/seats. Center console isn't really desirable as that steals too much room, but a double console or similar would give extra seating. A clean layout with bench seating and room for large buckets for fish is priority.

Motorization:
I have a 2007 30HP Selva Antibes, long shaft (25"?) outboard with electric start and remote throttlebox and steering. It pushes my current boat weighing around 450kg (1000lbs) (no engine) to plane sloooowly with two adults and two kids on board, so the new boat needs to be 1) easier to get on plane with the same people, 2) lighter, 3) lighter, 4) able to get on plane with 5-6 adults, 5) lighter. I have two 30 liter tanks connected with a Y-split in the tank well. This gives me enough range for short trips without any range anxiety. The engine does suck a lot of juice, however, so at some point it will be replaced.

If the engine is crap, don't hesitate to tell me so. If a higher HP engine is needed, there are lots of used engines available.

Usage:
Recreational daytrips of 5-8 hours, fishing inshore/semi-protected waters.

Cost and build time:
The boat must be quick, cheap and easy to build. I would like to build it this winter and have it on the water in April/May.

Marine ply (both Meranti and Okoume) and West System epoxy is available in Norway at $80-200/sheet (4mm-25mm). Marine paint is easily available, too, but I have no idea which brands go together with West.

Rigging:
At time of build:
- Engine and fuel tanks (removable)
- Battery
- Wiring for starter, charge cable back from the engine, lantern and phone charger

Maybe later:
- Flood lights in the bow (which may or may not be installed when building, so a chase tube for the wiring will need to be installed in any case).

There's probably heaps of things I've not thought about, and reading through the above I've pretty much made up my mind about which direction to go; I just need some input from y'all. :)

Thanks for reading!


8ft dinghy built in 1992, BBV sufferer ever since.

Christer
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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Christer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:19 am

Also worth mentioning is that I could probably fix the holes in the bottom and sell it as it sits, with trailer and engine, and then start again from scratch. This would mean I'm not limited to 17', but 17-19' is a good size, because it's easily trailerable and I can get it into and out of the water alone. So please, comment away. :)
8ft dinghy built in 1992, BBV sufferer ever since.

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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by silentneko » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:27 am

Sell it and start new. I don't think you are going to find any boat that will plane well with 4 adults and only 30hp. Also fitting 6+ people on an under 17ft boat is tough. If you can go to 18ft maybe look at an OD18 just for weight capacity, but plan on a bigger motor?
Built: 15ft Skiff, 16ft Skiff, Modified Cheap Canoe.....FS17 coming soon!

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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by cape man » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:46 am

Based on your words, sell it as is and get another boat, either off the shelf or start building fast. That boat will never do what you want, and you hate it. Based on your description i would run away from it.

The OD18 will have the space and load capacity (barely) but put at least a 70hp on it. Keep it as open as the plans allow and as light as possible.

All that said, you are asking a lot out of a small boat with the 6 to 8 souls on board. How often would that happen and where are you going?

I've seen it done here, but a full build between now and the spring is ambitious.
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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Aripeka Angler » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:58 am

I would sell the boat, motor and trailer that you have now.
An OD18 is too small for 6-8 passengers.
The GP21 would be perfect for your needs.
Richard
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Currently building...PY12 Kayak and FS18 "Bare Bones"
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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Christer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:09 am

silentneko wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:27 am
Sell it and start new. I don't think you are going to find any boat that will plane well with 4 adults and only 30hp. Also fitting 6+ people on an under 17ft boat is tough. If you can go to 18ft maybe look at an OD18 just for weight capacity, but plan on a bigger motor?
18 ft is absolutely doable, as is 19', 20' and 21', but at that point "cheap" is out the window, both in terms of build cost and motorization. I reckon I'd need at least a 100HP to power a boat that big. Money is a bit tight at the moment, hence my wish to reuse as much as possible. I kinda knew a 30HP wouldn't be very usable once I get over 15-16', but one could hope... :)
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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Christer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:26 am

cape man wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:46 am
Based on your words, sell it as is and get another boat, either off the shelf or start building fast. That boat will never do what you want, and you hate it. Based on your description i would run away from it.

The OD18 will have the space and load capacity (barely) but put at least a 70hp on it. Keep it as open as the plans allow and as light as possible.

All that said, you are asking a lot out of a small boat with the 6 to 8 souls on board. How often would that happen and where are you going?

I've seen it done here, but a full build between now and the spring is ambitious.
Thanks for your comments.

I looked at the OB17 and OB18, and it seems the OB18 has a lot lower freeboard than the OB17 (and 19)?

Wrt to 6-8 people on board, I'd like to say "not often". However, my fiancee is Polish and thus has many Polish friends, and they love to go fishing. As a result, we're getting many requests to go fishing in the boat. Lately I've been renting my boat to some of them. As the boat is rather shabby I haven't had the conscience to charge them more than fuel and a sixpack of beer. A nicer-looking boat would see the same use, only more of it.

We (and they) have mainly stayed within protected waters, 1000ft from land at the most so that in the event of the boat sinking, swimming ashore is possible.

I'm currently self-employed/unemployed and am trying to get my car detailing business off the ground, but the market is pretty much dead and I have nothing but free time. I think I'd be able to get quite a few hours in building the boat every week, so yeah, a bit ambitious, but should be doable. Worst case the boat won't splash until June/July, or even 2019, but that's okay, too. :)
8ft dinghy built in 1992, BBV sufferer ever since.

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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Christer » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:29 am

Aripeka Angler wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:58 am
I would sell the boat, motor and trailer that you have now.
An OD18 is too small for 6-8 passengers.
The GP21 would be perfect for your needs.
The GP21 work boat looks nice, but I'm worried about the freeboard. It's not mentioned anywhere on any of the study plans how tall the freeboard is on a rigged, but otherwise unloaded boat. I immediately think about extending the sides to get higher freeboard and then start to worry about the center of gravity and if it's the right boat for me.

The C19 or C21 look to be the best candidates, really..
8ft dinghy built in 1992, BBV sufferer ever since.

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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by remedy32 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:28 am

I'll throw a different spin on this with the thought of gasoline in Norway at $8-9 usd/gal.

If you really travel near shore so much maybe a large non planing or semi-planing hull would be a better fit to your needs. Yes, it's less exciting but a large lower speed hull weighs much less, can be built quickly, requires much less power and has much greater carrying capacity.

I'd consider among others, the Nina LB22 and PG22 Panga. I really like the Panga idea having read JM's discussion of the design. Simple, easy to build, and seaworthy. Your could power with your existing motor and get a feel for your needs knowing that a repower would be to the 50hp range, not 75-100.

Good luck with your decision making.

Bill
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Re: Repair, rebuild or just build a new one?

Post by Rmarsh » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:48 am

The GP21 work boat looks nice, but I'm worried about the freeboard. It's not mentioned anywhere on any of the study plans how tall the freeboard is on a rigged, but otherwise unloaded boat. I immediately think about extending the sides to get higher freeboard and then start to worry about the center of gravity and if it's the right boat for me.

The C19 or C21 look to be the best candidates, really..
[/quote]

Yes ....the C19 or C21 if you are serious about 6-8 people. I like the high freeboard of my C17, very dry ride even in substantial chop. We are in a colder climate so staying dry is more important than a boat used in warmer waters.
Can only handle four comfortably though....maybe you can invite guests on an alternate basis?

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