BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

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FLYonWALL9
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BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by FLYonWALL9 » Tue May 05, 2020 12:59 am

jacquesmm, shine, and others...

I have missed my old OB15 and the freedom it gave. I have really been thinking about building another boat but the model selection this time really has me stumped so have my physical requirements. I really needed to sell my OB15 because it was really uncomfortable to fish with my back limitations. Although it rides fantastic the hull impact in chop was unbearable. It is inevitable where I live you have to cross open water that often turns snotty.

jacquesmm, I KNOW how you really do not like very much for us builders to stray away from your designs because as we builder make changes designer support can change because we are stepping into the unknown. For years I have mulled over the Panga22 (willing to entertain other designs!) but for one reason or another haven't purchased the plans. More than anything I need it to ride VERY soft and the only way I know to get to that point is to increase deadrise at the transom. I realize at rest stability will be affected. I will need fore and aft raised fishing decks with chairs. Because of the Panga's narrow beam I don't mind not having a console and shift seating arrangements once I get to the fishing spots.

So, the questions are:

Will it be at all possible to soften the ride of a PG22 with added transom deadrise?

Any issues with increasing the fuel capacity to gain offshore fishing range of around 150-200 miles with a 70-75hp? And aprox what size tank would be needed to achieve this?

If you think my needs would be better suited with a different design what would those be? willing to go as small as 17ft

Whatever build I go with it will very likely be an above-average yacht brightwork finish like my OB15 ''WHISPER'' had.

Once again,
Scott Godwin
aka 'FLY'



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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue May 05, 2020 9:00 am

Scot-I feel your pain. I cannot take much pounding.

Go bigger, or go displacement hull, or go twin hulls, aka catamaran semi displacement.

A bigger hull is still going to have some response to the chop.

A displacement hull will be slower, but ride can improve in weather.

A semi-displacement catamaran has a different quick movement in the heavier stuff or not much movement at all in mild chops.

I hope Mertens speaks to which boat of his would have the smoothest ride.

Another very smooth riding boat is a Bertram. While I don't advocate going away from Mertens; a 20' moppie rides smooth, but you do end up using more fuel. A restoration project on these is in the back of my brain.

Good luck.
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FLYonWALL9
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by FLYonWALL9 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:10 am

Thanks for the reply.

Before coming back this route I put out some feelers to several of my catastrophe insurance adjuster friends to see if they could come up with either a badly damaged Liberator cat or like. Also, Donzi Classic 20-22ft hulls the same condition up to stolen stripped or burned-out hulls or any of the smaller nearshore racing boats that have a pretty deep V and convert it to an outboard which is pretty easy with an added bracket. Donzi did make a 20ft center console back in the day but they are hen's teeth.. I've been out on a 20ft Bertram that was converted to an outboard center console. That 20ft hull was used on several models, Bahia Mar, Baron, Sportsman, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple. lol The Mangusta 20 fits pretty well but man it's HUGE and the build cost is WELL above that of the PG22. The issue with all these damaged boats most find their way to FL where they are auctioned. Honestly, the most attractive of them all that could fish almost every kind of water in my area (we don't really have flats) would be a cat making the Liberator and similar hulls ideal. About the shallowest fishing, I would get in my area is around 2ft. Conversely, I can only go offshore in a 1ft or less sea both due to my back and I have Crohn's Disease. Jaring my guts can send me faster to the ER than my back. In fact, the last time I went offshore YEARS ago was in a 24ft Topaz I helped a good friend restore. On the way home, we had a quartering 3ft sea with a very close period. The only relief I could get was balling up laying in the floor, hours later I was in the ER with an 8mm hole in my intestine.

I would go the displacement route but I really can't fit anything over 22 with the added trailer length in my driveway. Also, with the distance from shore, I have to travel to get to ideal fishing grounds at displacement speeds would only leave me about 2 hours to fish and only the ability to hit no more than 4 of our many artificial reefs.

Again, thanks for your input FALLGUY. Spitballing ideas and the comradery in this community is one major draw to building these boats!

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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:56 am

My top choice. You can also probably put a porta potty in it up front. This boat would definitely be able to go slow in a chop with minimal wear and tear on the occupants. Her keel would keep her steady in a beam wind as well, so you are not forced to quarter or head, although, it might be more comfortable versus beam on.

https://bateau.com/studyplans/LB22_study.php?prod=LB22
Last edited by fallguy1000 on Tue May 05, 2020 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue May 05, 2020 10:57 am

The one thing about the Nina that bothers me is the engine location. Perhaps Mertens can speak to it.
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by fallguy1000 » Tue May 05, 2020 11:02 am

The Pilot 21 is also a good contender. See what Mertens says.
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by jacquesmm » Tue May 05, 2020 3:08 pm

It is rarely possible to have everything in one boat: smooth ride at good speed, building economy and fuel economy.
We must compromise and either accept that a deep vee hull cost more to build and requires a much larger engine which defeats the fuel economy goal.
The best compromise I see is to go for a semi-displacement type hull and you are on the right track mentioning the Nina and the Pangas.
The Pangas are narrow with a fine entry and handle well at mid speeds, speeds between true displacement and planing but, there is still a price to pay. At those speeds, they burn almost the same gph than planing. You can go 10 t0 15 mph with a Panga without pushing a big bow wave or slamming but you will burn fuel. I see that as a good compromise if your priority is seaworthiness. In case of an unpredictable sea build up, a Panga will bring you home without crashing through waves but you"ll use a lot of fuel. It is not a problem if you do it occasionally.
The Nina is another hull in that style and it could be built with the outboard on the transom.
I designed her for somebody who wanted a boat between the Bolger Halloween and the Atkins Ninigret.
I have been on the original Bolger Halloween, the boat was in the Bahamas, same marina than my boat. The builder started with a small engine as specified by Bolger, 30 or 40 HP if I remember well but switched to a 70 the 2nd season. The Nina will not plane or only in the best conditions with a 50. There is one close to where I live and I tested the boat. She is not designed to plane but the specs can be adjusted for it. She runs very smoothly for a boat with such a flat deadrise.

There is no way to modify the bottom of my existing designs.
For multihulls, look at Richard Woods boats but he doesn't have any small Skoota.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by BarraMan » Tue May 05, 2020 4:04 pm

. lol The Mangusta 20 fits pretty well but man it's HUGE
How do you figure that? My boat is based on the Mangusta 20 hull. I upscaled it 10% - at 22’ x 8’ I t’s BIG but not huge. With its 18 degrees of deadrise at the transom, it is a big fast excellent handling soft riding boat. My mates love it! We generally travel 30 - 40 nm of sheltered and open water to where we fish.

If you want a soft ride in a power boat you need length and deadrise!

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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by jacquesmm » Tue May 05, 2020 5:20 pm

BarraMan wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 4:04 pm


If you want a soft ride in a power boat you need length and deadrise!
Correct. I did not mention the Mangusta because of its cost.
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Re: BEEN A LONG TIME thinking of building another

Post by Fuzz » Tue May 05, 2020 5:44 pm

While I have never been on one the Pangas being able to slow down and still be pretty good on fuel sure appeals to me.
Being able to slow down and still remain on step is tough to do. And slowing down is the only thing I have found to soften the ride. The boat I fish the most has about 17 degrees deadrise and is 22 foot long. It has to be going 17-18mph to be on step and even at that speed I have had it beat the crap out of me.

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