P-14 1958 CLASSIC GLASS RENOVATION

Questions about boat repairs with our resins and fiberglass: hull patches, transoms and stringers, foam, rot etc.
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P-14 1958 CLASSIC GLASS RENOVATION

Post by MTECHMARINE » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:43 pm

SO FINALLY WE BEGIN - -

I have had this project hull for 5 years now, it was on eBay and nobody bid on it, so I contacted the owner and purchased it for $200. Drove all the way from here (NW Florida) down to Clearwater to pick it up.
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A good indication of the transom's inner condition can be seen as it was fertile enough to grow a plant!!
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Having recently relocated from Hawaii with no feel for distance it became an overnight trip. So hauled it back to Navarre and parked it in the garage for future reference. Unfortunately my little ideas were put on hold by Hurricane IVAN. As you can see in the picture the boat wound up off the trailer, on the end of the winch cable in the drive way. 24 antique and classic outboards got a saltwater bath, the only thing that saved the shop was the tree on the roof. Windshield was broken on the boat, but only minor hull scrapes.

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Now we have a little more time out of that thing called life to simply mess about in boats. so the cutting has begun on the old Whiz Ski Chaser. Plans are to restore to former glory, but not as a restoration, but more a renovation into an antique outboard meet fun craft - a hot rod if you will.

I'll post more tomorrow when A: my server isn't down
And B: I figure out the proper path to embed these pictures. :oops: I have a lot more, we are to the grinding stage! :wink:

Friday, June 11th - OK, got it. Servers' back up so here's some shots as we clean out the old innards.
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It was easier, IMHO, to remove a portion of the aft deck to get at the transom and wet well structure. I didn't remove the entire deck as it is actually tabbed together as original, or else someone else in the past did it for me.
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FINALLY got the wood off the transom. used a 5" saw to cut strips and chiseled if off line by line.
Air chisels' a great idea, but I am replacing tools ruined by IVAN as I go so all I can add so far is a Roto-Zip router and a new 7 inch grinder.
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Finally ready to grind it out. :roll:
Last edited by MTECHMARINE on Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Post by tech_support » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:18 am

The worst part is almost over :) , looks good. Only removing the aft section of the deck is fine, its easy to put back and fair it in.

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Post by MTECHMARINE » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:44 pm

OK, now that I have got this thing cut up, I think i will go to work as follows -
1st, build a proper support / jig to set the boat on while restoring the inner structure.
2nd, replace the transom 1 1/2" thick wood with 2 layers of 18MM Meranti. The original top portion down to the well was 1 1/2, below that 3/4. I don't intend to run anything bigger than a 50's, 60's 40 -50 Merc around 175 pounds, probably more like 145, so the original thickness bolstered by knees and wet well box should easily handle it. I will be putting on an inner and outer 1/4" aluminum motor plate as well.
3rd, restructure the floor stringers with 3/4" up the center and a couple of hardwood 2x?? alongside mid way to the chine, similar to original except all the way forward.
Now, questions - I intend to "frame" as follows - front of well, front of center deck (where the steering station will be relocated), front of front seat and another bulkhead at the front dashboard. I will add some 3/4 X 1 1/2 around the inner and outer edges of 6Mil Meranti. Now - Should I put the bulkheads in all the way to the floor and install the sole in sections? Or will we be stronger to put in a one piece floor (which certainly will be easier) and frame on top of it - - the latter is my choice, I can build some smaller cross frames below the sole if you think I need it.
I was thinking of adding another layer of material to a triangular area aft where the boat will be running most of the time. MY objective here is to keep this boat as light as practical. My ideal powerplant will be a 95 pound Mercury KG-9Q which I have with a long quicksilver unit. should be able to roll near 50 :lol: with this cutie if it stays LIGHT!

The boat has a slight hook in it, hopefully as thin as it is new stringers will straighten it out. The centerline and keel are straight. Looks to me like the side stringers were used to create this hook, or maybe it just deformed sitting around.
Take a look, give me your thoughts.

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Post by tech_support » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:21 am

The transom thickness is more than adequate. Transom is tabbed to hull side and botom with 2 layers of 12 oz. biax tape. Then 2 layers of 12 oz. 50" wide cloth over the transom - overlapping to the sides/bottom (over the tape)

I would make my stringers from 2 layers of laminated 3/8" with the joints staggered so that you have one continuous 3/4" stringer. Stringers are tabbed to hull with 2 layers of biax tape.

frames: 3/8" meranti spaced at around 30" - tabbed to hull with 12 oz Biax tape.

You will then epoxy glue cleats (little pieces of wood) to the top of the stringers and frames to provide glue area for the sole. I would prefer to glue the sole down in a couple pieces - so there is plenty of time to mix and apply the epoxy glue. Then the sole gets tabbed to the hull sides with the same 12 ox Biax tape. Sole can be 3/8" or 1/2". I would only put a light cloth on the top side of the sole.

Fillets for transom/stringers/frames/sole should be about 3/8" to 1/2" radius

you will need at least the following to get to the prime/paint stage:

-2 rolls of 12 oz. biax tape
-5 lbs of woodflour (for making glue and fillets)
-3 quarts of quick fair (or 1/2 lb or blended filler if you prefer to mix your own fairing putty)
-enough wide biax cloth to cover your transom as described above
-3 gallons of epoxy to start ( I will guess you may use 6 gallons total on the rebuild)
-plywood: make a drawing of all the parts so you can see how you will cut them out to make the most efficient use of the wood

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Post by MTECHMARINE » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:53 am

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:help: READY TO GRIND IT OUT - LITERALLY

AFTER A COUPLE OF EFFORTS IN 90+ DEGREE AUGUST HEAT WE GOT THE NASTY JOB FINISHED! :P

THERE WERE 3 LAYERS OF PAINT AND GEL COAT ON THE INTERIOR. GOT THE WORST OF IT OFF AND SMOOTHED DOWN.

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AFTER A HOT, HUMID AND BUSY AUGUST PLUS SWEATING OUT STORMS, MY ORDER OF MATERIALS HAS FINALLY ARRIVED AND THE WEATHERS COOLING DOWN, NOW IS THE PERFECT TIME TO "GIT 'ER DONE"!

CUT OUT AND FIT THE TRANSOM AND 3 MAIN STRINGERS YESTERDAY PM SEPTEMBER 16TH.
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TRANSOM IS INSTALLED! :lol: I TAPED OVER ALL THE HOLES AND THEY FILLED IN NICELY.
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IT WENT BETTER THAN I THOUGHT, I FIRST COATED BOTH BOAT AND INNER TRANSOM SIDE WITH EPOXY, THAN APPLIED THICKENED EPOXY WITH A TILE MUD SPREADER TO FILL IN. LOTS OOZED OUT. FILLETED WITH THICKER MATERIAL USING THE CAKE DECORATING TECHNIQUE. WORKED OUT PRETTY WELL.

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OCTOBER 1ST AND THE GOOD WEATHERS HOLDING. BEEN ABLE TO WORK ON THE BOAT EVERY DAY THIS LAST WEEK.

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THE TRANSOM TABBED AND COVERED WITH 2 LAYERS OF 16OZ BIAX.

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CUT AND GLUED IN THE 3 STRINGERS, THEN CLEATED THEM WITH 3/4 X 3/4. NOT SHOWN ARE 2 SMALL CROSS FRAMES THAT WILL BE LOCATED BELOW DECKS WHERE THE FRONT SEAT BACK AND THE REAR BULKHEAD MEET THE FLOOR.

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TORE OUT THE OLD DASHBOARD THAT SOMEONE ELSE REPLACED IN THE PAST, THEY HAD GLUED AND TABBED IN WITH POLYESTER. I WAS ABLE TO EASILY REMOVE IT. THIS SURE SHOWED ME HOW POORLY ANY POLYESTER/POLYESTER REPAIR WOULD COME OUT.

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NOW ABOUT READY TO INSTALL THE FRONT HALF OF THE SOLE. I LEFT ABOUT A 2 INCH LIP AROUND THE PERIPHERY OF THE BOAT TO ACT AS A GLUE FLANGE AND HELP STIFFEN THE COMPLETED BOTTOM. CHAMFERED THE SOLE EDGES SO AS TO MAKE A SMOOTH TRANSITION FOR THE TABBING.

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AS THE HULL SHAPE WAS DISTORTED BY THE REMOVAL OF THE AFT DECK I REINSTALLED IT. BOY THAT SURE HELPED SQUARE THINGS AWAY. I AM REMOVING THE POP RIVETED FLANGE WHERE THE DECK AND HULL MEET AND FAIRING THE 2 INTO ONE SMOOTH TRANSITION. THE INSIDE IS TABBED TOGETHER, I WILL ALSO RUN A SMALL STRIP DOWN THE EXTERIOR TO BE SURE IT WILL NOT SEPERATE. I PUT AN 18" BLOCK AT THE JOINT WHERE THE REAR DECK CAME OFF AND TABBED THE HECK OUT OF IT AS WELL. GENEROUS AMOUNTS OF THICKENED RESIN BEDDED IT ON TO THE TRANSOM AT THE TOP.

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GOT THE SOLE IN. THE EDGES WERE A BIT OFF RELATIVE TO THE REMAINING FLANGE BUT MY ELECTRIC PLANE AND DISC GRINDER SOON SMOOTHED THE TRANSITION. A BIT OF FAIRING WITH THICKENED EPOXY AND THE TABBING WENT EXCEPTIONALLY WELL. :o

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JUST PUT BUTT BLOCKS EXTENDING 2 INCHES AT THE JOINT, TIGHTENED THEM UP WITH TEMPORARY SCREWS. HAD TO SCREW A COUPLE SPOTS ON THE SOLE AS WELL TO ENSURE COMPLETE CONTACT. ALL SCREWS WERE REMOVED AFTER RESIN SET.

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THE PORT SIDE CENTERDECK AREA OF THIS OLD GIRL EVIDENTLY HAD AN ARGUMENT WITH THE DOCK AT SOMETIME PAST, OR PERHAPS WAS WHACKED BY SOMETHING IN THE HURRICANE. IN ANY CASE THE TAB ALONG THE GUNWALE WAS LOOSE AND THE DECK ITSELF WAS CRACKED SO I GROUND IT CLEAN, RETABBED AND ADDED A LAYER BENEATH THE CRACK IN THE DECK. THEN FIGURED THE INNER CENTER DECK AND SEAT SUPPORTS.

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FITTING THE BULKHEADS. ALL THIS AREA AND THE SOLE DONE WITH 9MM MERANTI.

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MORE TABBING - -

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SAW WHERE ANOTHER BUILDER DID A NEAT TRANSOM DRAIN BY CUTTING A LARGER HOLE, PLUGGING IT WITH EPOXY AND DRILLING THE SMALLER HOLE IN THE CENTER SO AS TO ELIMINATE ANY CHANCE OF WATER PENETRATION. GREAT IDEA, HERE'S HOW MINE CAME OUT. I PUT A LITTLE CHOPPED GLASS IN THE MIX FOR EXTRA STRENGTH.

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WITH RAIN IN THE FORECAST WE GOT THE SOLE SEALED UP, GOOD THING AS THE RAINS CAME TODAY THE 7TH.

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NOW IT'S NOVEMBER 8TH, WE HAVE MADE SOME PROGRESS ON THE BOAT, WEATHER IS REALLY NICE NOW ALTHOUGH GETTING CHILLIER AT NIGHT. HAD TO MAKE A 3000 MILE TRIP TO WASHINGTON STATE TO PICK UP MY OUTBOARD COLLECTION FROM STORAGE.

I HAVE DILIGENTLY LOOKED AROUND ON THE BBS AND CAN'T FIND ANY SIMPLE "POST" ICON SO I KEEP ADDING TO THE SAME PAGE - ANYONE CARE TO COMMENT? IT MUST BE SO OBVIOUS BUT BEATS ME!

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INSTALLED A REAR SEAT BACK, THIS WILL ALSO ACT AS THE FORWARD BULKHEAD FOR THE MOTORWELL

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FRONT SEAT SUPPORT AND SEAT BACKS TAKING SHAPE

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MOTORWELL INSTALLED. IN ORDER TO SAVE CUTTING A NEW SHEET OF WOOD I WAS ABLE TO SCARF 2 SCRAPS TO CREATE THE WELL FLOOR.

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THE 2 REAR SEAT SUPPORTS ARE CANTED AS THEY ALSO FORM THE SIDES OF THE MOTORWELL. THEY WILL BE CLEATED TO ADD STIFFNESS AND SUPPORT THE CENTER OF THE SEAT. AN OMC "DURA TANK" JUST NEATLY SLIDES INTO THE SPACE ON EACH SIDE OF THESE SUPPORTS.

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THIS BOAT HULL AND DECK WAS ORIGINALLY FLANGED AND POP RIVETED TOGETHER. THEN THE INSIDE WAS TABBED. THERE WAS SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE TO THIS FLANGE, FILLED WITH SILICONE, ETC SO I HAVE CUT THE ENTIRE THING OFF AND WILL FAIR AND TAB THE OUTSIDE TOGETHER. THEN 3/4" STAINLESS TRIM. UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS A PRETTY BAD MATCH BETWEEN THE 2 HALVES! SO WE GOOBERED IT UP, WITH THE ADDED TAB MATERIAL IT SHOULD ROUND OUT AND LOOK OK. I DID THIS ON MY 21" MFG AND IT CAME OUT REALLY COOL! :roll:

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LOOKING DOWN ONE SIDE

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TOMORROW NOV 6TH I WILL ADD MATERIAL TO THE PERIPHERY AND GLASS THE MOTORWELL FLOOR AND SIDES WITH 8 OZ CLOTH. THEN WE HAVE TO START THINKING ABOUT THE FINISH.

WILL QUICKFAIR FILL IN THE NASTY GEL COAT SPIDER CRACKS OK? DO I NEED TO PRIME THE GLASS 1ST? I AM IMPRESSED WITH THE SMOOTH FINISHES I SEE USING THE ROLL AND TIP PROCESS. I HAVE ALWAYS SPRAYED, BUT PRESENTLY HAVE NO GUN NOR GOOD SHELTER. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE THE STERLING PAINT TO TACK OFF?? I MIGHT BE ABLE TO RIG A TEMPORARY SHELTER FOR THIS JOB IF NEED BE.

11-21-2008

I AM ABOUT READY TO ORDER SOME FINISH, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING APPLICATION AND COVERAGE.

IN ADDITION TO THOSE PRIOR Q'S POSED IN THE FORUM -

WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GRAPHITE BOTTOM PAINT - I CAN'T FIND IT ON THE BBC SITE.

HOW MUCH STERLING PAINT REQUIRED FOR MY:
DECK (ORDER 1 QT?)
BOTTOM (ORDER 1 QT?)
HULL SIDES AND TRANSOM (ORDER 2 QTS?)

OVER TOP OF QUICKFAIR - SHOULD I PUT A COAT OF RESIN AS STATED ON THE CONTAINER OR WILL PRIMER SUFFICE?

PRIMER - BRUSH OR SPRAY?

CAN I JUST PAINT OVER THE EPOXY ON THE INSIDE WITHOUT ANY PREP OTHER THAN SANDING?

CAN YOU RECOMMEND AN EPOXY INTERIOR FINISH SIMILAR TO THE OLD "ZOLOTONE" SPATTER TRUNK OR HULL INTERIOR FINISH THAT WILL LAST FOR A BOAT? I USED GEL COAT IN HAWAII BUT THAT SEEMS OLD SCHOOL.

I HAVE BEEN ADDING TO THIS BBS BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADD A NEW POST! OR A NEW PAGE. ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SET UP A PHOTO GALLERY OF THE PROGRESS ON THIS BOAT, WHERE DO I START?
Last edited by MTECHMARINE on Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by tech_support » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:16 pm

bump

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Post by tech_support » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:56 pm

WILL QUICKFAIR FILL IN THE NASTY GEL COAT SPIDER CRACKS OK? DO I NEED TO PRIME THE GLASS 1ST?
Most of the time, yes. But it depends how bad they. I would roll some epoxy over the gelcoat to seal it up, then use the quickfair to fix the cracks.
I AM IMPRESSED WITH THE SMOOTH FINISHES I SEE USING THE ROLL AND TIP PROCESS. I HAVE ALWAYS SPRAYED, BUT PRESENTLY HAVE NO GUN NOR GOOD SHELTER. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE THE STERLING PAINT TO TACK OFF?? I MIGHT BE ABLE TO RIG A TEMPORARY SHELTER FOR THIS JOB IF NEED BE.
Its takes several hours, or you can ad a bit of the accelerator and it will skin over in an hours (give or take depending on temp)
WHATS THE DEAL WITH THE GRAPHITE BOTTOM PAINT - I CAN'T FIND IT ON THE BBC SITE.
Its just graphite powder mixed in with your regular epoxy. You roll on a couple thin layers to get a nice sealing coat of epoxy plus a great slick surface. Its in the fillers section of boatbuildercentral.com Here is the link...
http://boatbuildercentral.com/products.php?cat=13
HOW MUCH STERLING PAINT REQUIRED FOR MY:
DECK (ORDER 1 QT?)
BOTTOM (ORDER 1 QT?)
HULL SIDES AND TRANSOM (ORDER 2 QTS?)
The paint goes a long way. The trick is to do a good job with the primer.

Hull sides, transom, and deck (2 quarts max)
bottom, another 1/2 quart
inside, 1 quart max
OVER TOP OF QUICKFAIR - SHOULD I PUT A COAT OF RESIN AS STATED ON THE CONTAINER OR WILL PRIMER SUFFICE?


The epoxy primer is fine
PRIMER - BRUSH OR SPRAY?
roll and brush, some like to spray but I can roll on a nice coat in less time it takes for me to clean a spray gun. Not to mention rolling/brushing is MUCH better for your lungs. If you spray epoxy you need a serious respirator.
CAN I JUST PAINT OVER THE EPOXY ON THE INSIDE WITHOUT ANY PREP OTHER THAN SANDING?


It will take at least twice as much paint that way, use primer ! the primer not only fills little voids, but most importantly to painting it give a uniform background color.
CAN YOIU RECOMMEND AN EPOXY INTERIOR FINISH SIMILAR TO THE OLD "ZOLOTONE" SPATTER TRUNK OR HULL INTERIOR FINISH THAT WILL LAST FOR A BOAT? I USED GEL COAT IN HAWAII BUT THAT SEEMS OLD SCHOOL.
Some builders have used the topcoat paint with a splatter paint effect.

I HAVE BEEN ADDING TO THIS BBS BUT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO ADD A NEW POST! OR A NEW PAGE. ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SET UP A PHOTO GALLERY OF THE PROGRESS ON THIS BOAT, WHERE DO I START?
You need to hit the "post reply" button at the bottom of the thread, this then pushes your thread to the top of the message board. If you "edit" the same post, it does not show up as being anything new

Joel

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Post by MTECHMARINE » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:47 pm

OK, I KNEW IT HAD TO BE SIMPLE TO DO A "NEW" POST. :oops:

PROGRESSING, I TURNED THE CRITTER OVER TO DO THE OUTSIDE 1ST. THIS REVEALED THAT THE BOTTOM, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS STRAIGHT, IS ANYTHING BUT. SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE'LL BE GRINDING AND FILLING A BUNCH. I WILL LAY UP PROGRESSIVELY LARGER ELLIPSES OF GLASS 'TIL I REACH A CLOSE PLANE, THEN FAIR IT IN.
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FORTUNATELY THIS SIDES THE WORST, THE OTHER SIDE IS ONLY OFF BY ABOUT 60 THOU AND UP ABOUT 2 FEET. ONE OR 2 LAYERS SHOULD FIX IT.

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THE REST OF THE BOTTOM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE OUTSIDE OF THE HOLE I PATCHED FROM INSIDE IS PRETTY GOOD FOR A 50 YEAR OLD!

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I HAD SOME SERIOUS STAINLESS EYES LEFT FROM ANCIENT INVENTORY, YOU COULD USE 'EM FOR A 40 FOOTER!! NEVER HURTS TO USE OVERKILL ON ANY BOAT.

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Post by MTECHMARINE » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:41 pm

BEEN BUSY CHASING DOLLARS THE LAST FEW WEEKS, NOT MUCH PROGRESS, BUT WE HAVE GROUND AND FILLED MOST OF THE HOOK. I CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY THE OUTSIDE OF THIS THINGS' SO WARPED, THE STRINGERS I LAID DOWN INSIDE WERE PRETTY FAIR TO THE BOTTOM. O WELL, IT'S A "HULL"OF A LOT BETTER THAN IT WAS! :o

WEATHERS' BEEN COLD WHEN I HAVE TIME, OR ELSE RAINING. I HOPE TO GET SOME GOOD WEATHER NEXT WEEK, WILL BE FAIRING THE BOTTOM AND STARTING FINISH WORK!

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Post by MTECHMARINE » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:20 pm

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ADDED THIS MUCH TO THE BOTTOM B4 IT GOT COLD. IT NEEDS JUST A LITTLE MORE MATERIAL AND THEN I CAN FAIR IT ALL WITH ONE FELL SWOOP WITH A PAINTERS' EDGER. STILL COLD TODAY BUT THE WEATHERS' FORECAST TO WARM.

ORDERED MY PAINT, :| 3 QUARTS STERLING AND PRIMER, ETC. WOW, IT COST NEARLY AS MUCH AS THE REST OF THE MATERIALS FOR THIS JOB! BUT IF IT WORKS AS WELL AS IT SHOULD THAT WILL MAKE IT ALL WORTH THE EXPENSE!

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OLD ORIGINAL CAL NUMBERS WERE UNDER THE FL ONES. THIS BOAT WAS BUILT IN PARAMOUNT CAL BY "MOTORBOAT DISTRIBUTING COMPANY"

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PRIOR TO, I PATCHED THIS HOLE FROM THE INSIDE, NOW GROUND OFF THE IRREGULARITIES AND THE OLD POLYESTER PATCH, FILLED IT IN WITH BIAX AND EPOXY.

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