AD-14 Questions

Sail Boats 15' and up. Please include the boat type in your question.
BigDreams
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AD-14 Questions

Post by BigDreams » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:27 am

Hello all,

I really enjoy the building and sailing logs from all of the generous people here on this forum. I have built an Angus Rowcruiser (sold it) and, last year, a Prameke 78, but am interested in doing a little more exploration with something like the AD-14. I have some questions about the AD-14 that I'm hoping some of the people who have built one (or the AD-16) can help answer. Also, if Jacques has any input, it would be greatly appreciated.

1) Would it be any trouble (or even preferable) to leave frame D solid without the cutout and simply use the watertight compartment aft for storage, accessing it from the seat top? Do you really use the area for your feet inside, or is there plenty enough room to still lie down without that extra area past frame D?

2) With all of the difficulty and expense of obtaining lead nowadays, do you foresee any problem with securing weightlifting dumbells and/or plates to use as ballast instead of lead ingots?

3) How about an aluminum plate for a centerboard? Too much trouble/expense?

4) Does anyone have any true gps upwind tacking angles to report? I'm not expecting anything off the charts, but a general idea would be nice other than "it seems to do alright".

5) Any problem rowing this boat for short distances, either fixed seat or standing up? I'm not talking 30 mile days, just a couple hundred yards to the dock. I would rather do without an engine.

Thanks in advance. I really appreciate it!

Michael


Angus Rowcruiser, Prameke 78

terrulian
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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by terrulian » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:13 pm

Good questions which I'm no help on, but I also am curious on the tacking angle of this boat. I'd bet it's pretty normal; Jacques is not a beginner. But this is a little difficult to calibrate precisely, because of variables like current, sail trim, windspeed, and who's at the helm. Nevertheless, with a few runs in various conditions I would think you could arrive at some figure, and I'd be interested in it.
Tony
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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by BigDreams » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:47 pm

terrulian wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:13 pm
Good questions which I'm no help on, but I also am curious on the tacking angle of this boat. I'd bet it's pretty normal; Jacques is not a beginner. But this is a little difficult to calibrate precisely, because of variables like current, sail trim, windspeed, and who's at the helm. Nevertheless, with a few runs in various conditions I would think you could arrive at some figure, and I'd be interested in it.
Thanks Terrulian,

Yes, I really hope I get a few answers on some of these questions. Everyone here is usually very helpful, so I'm pretty sure we'll hear something soon.
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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by gonandkarl » Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:05 am

Hi,
I have built my AD14 as per plan but I definitely can imagine to make the compartment betweeen frame D and the transom watertight. George made an access from the top but just for a gas container for his out board motor. You have to have very long arms to get right down to the floor from the bench top. If you lie in the bunk half of your body will be in the cabin when the feet are at frame D. Dumb bells are maybe OK for the removable ballast up front under the sole but definitely not for the centre board which should weigh around 125 pounds and that you will only get with lead in the 3 designed disks. An aluminium centreboard is also not really possible as it is soft and might just bend and I cannot imagine how to get dumb bells or lead into a 2 inch thick alu shell. Lead should be no problem to get from a scrap yard and the melting is easily done in an old pot heated by a gas camping cooker. Lead comes worldwide mostly from northern Korea and is available everywhere it is just a bit expensive. But think of it you need it only once for your AD14 and it will last for ever. I like your idea about rowing for some distance. We had to do it when my electric outboard motor did loose connection to the battery because I did not solder this connection. I had a stand up paddle and a double paddle on board and from each bench we were pushing the AD14 to the shore and it worked very well.
An even better way to row would be to pull up the rudder and use one long rudder blade from the middle of the transom. There is even a specific name to row from the middle of the transom and I have seen a video about it and all you do move the long rudder from left to right while it rests on the transom middle in a small cut out. About the sailing into the wind I cannot give you an answer as my sail will be set first time this spring, but all AD sailors have reported that the boat sails very well even in high waves and should it not go to well up wind you track some more. It is no sailboat for racing anyway so some extra way does not matter.
Greetings from Karl
All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by BigDreams » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:37 am

Thanks for the information, Karl. I'm really going to have to give some thought about bulkhead D. I guess I could try it out solid first and then cut it if I needed to (or just cut one side). I've thought about a yuloh like you mentioned, but I wonder how long it would need to be and the storage for that. For that matter, any oars would probably have to be pretty long because of the width and freeboard of the boat itself. At this stage, I'm just looking at the feasibility and comparing possibilities, and checking what some others are doing. Maybe just a strong trolling motor would be the simplest option; the batteries could provide some removable ballast as well....

I'm really looking forward to your first sail report! I know you are excited to finally begin sailing soon, and I hope you'll share it with us.

Michael
Angus Rowcruiser, Prameke 78

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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by OrangeQuest » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:51 am

Could always put a spin off deck plate on frame D. Then it will still be close to water tight and handy place to stow a dry bag or two on lanyards so you have a place for spare clothes and emergency stuff.
"that it isn't just an ordinary sort of boat. Sometimes it's a Boat, and sometimes it's more of an Accident. It all depends." "Depends on what?" "On whether I'm on the top of it or underneath it."
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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by gonandkarl » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:28 am

Hi,
The oar needs only to be 6 foot 5 long and it will fit inside a bunk at least the one where frame D is of the round version. The cut out of frame D could also easily be made as a lockable swing door so you can use it which ever way you want , closed when on the water so a wave going over the open bench lid does not bring the water right into the cabin, open when you are anchored and you want to sleep in the bunk with the legs all the way to the transom. I will take my standup paddle board paddle only along in the future and will be sculling with it if needed and it has the advantage that it can be made short for stowage. I bought it originaly for my FS13 standup paddle boat where it works also fine.



But the idea of a trolling motor is good, I used mine already a couple of times and it pushes my AD14 quite fast. it is an American MinnKota C30 and it was rather cheap to buy much cheaper than the smallest Suzuki or Tohatsu petrol outboard motors which are used by our Australian friend Salvatore in Sydney and Bondo near Seattle. But they use the petrol driven motors because they sail on the ocean. I will sail for a start only on lakes and there the small trolling motor is enough. If you place the battery in front of frame C it is definitely part of the ballast weighing about 16 KG.
Greetings from Karl
All pictures of Micro Petrel AD14 and FS13 :

http://gallery.bateau2.com/index.php?cat=87433

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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by BigDreams » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:55 pm

Those are some great ideas, Karl, and I'm liking this boat better all the time. This boat will definitely be in salt water, but I bet I could rig up a pretty good yuloh if it doesn't have to be too long, maybe even come apart for storage. Let me know how your paddleboard paddle does when you splash; I'm really curious as to how well it will work on this boat, especially if there is any wind.
OrangeQuest wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:51 am
Could always put a spin off deck plate on frame D. Then it will still be close to water tight and handy place to stow a dry bag or two on lanyards so you have a place for spare clothes and emergency stuff.
OrangeQuest, This is a great idea and goes along with what Karl suggested. I was a little concerned about the airflow at anchor but that deck plate in the frame would take care of that perfectly and provide access from both inside and out, if needed. I'm honestly thinking about wet storage, fenders, rode, etc., maybe even a movable homemade compost toilet.

Right now, I'm mulling over several different designs and asking questions, what about this, what about that. It seems like this little boat might be the best fit for my plans, but of course, every boat has its compromises. I just want to minimize the negatives and maximize the positives.
Angus Rowcruiser, Prameke 78

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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by Bogieman » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:06 am

Hi BigDreams! And welcome. I get excited everytime there's a new sailboat builder on the forum.

D Frame: I had planned to do the same thing you are talking about. I thought it would've been nice to have a built in cooler on one side and a place for gas cans etc on the other. What changed my mind was a conversation I had with Jacques when visiting BBC to pick up supplies. Jacques said it could be done but to do so would be weakening the design and reducing water tight intergrity. He also told me there would be plenty of room for storage inside( he was right- she's big inside). So I decided to take his advice and I'm glad I did. It would be difficult to use the settee berths for sleeping if you leave D frame solid because the distance from cabin bulkhead C to D frame is only about 40". You'd have to sleep a balled up. Also, not having to worry about building those hatches really simplified the build.

Lead ballast: I had also thought of using dumbells or steel plates for the removable ballast. You can do it as long as you can keep everything from shifting.

Good luck,

Bogie

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Re: AD-14 Questions

Post by Biney777 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:07 pm

Hi BigDreams! Welcome to the forum! A lot of good questions. I have been researching the Oars vs. Motor decision. At my primary lake if I don't have a motor my boat does not have to be inspected or licensed. So I am Really trying to make oars work! The beam on my AR15 is 72"-74". Which is just a couple inches narrower than the AD14. Using a couple different formula's one from "The Dinghy Cruising Companion" I get a suggested minimum oar length of 11.4' or 11.6' Shorter ones will of course "work". But I figured I should try and find the "right" size to start with. I have found 1 source for 11' oars with a 27" detachable blade that with shipping are $470. That is a little $$$ for my wallet. Also at that length I will need to put access hatches in my transom so that they can be stored under my seats. The sculling idea somebody already mentioned is probably the best easiest solution for both our boats. Being stubborn tho, I am going to try making a pair of long oars just to see if I can do it. I will post some pics of that process on my build thread. I am going shopping for some clean straight lumber on my way home tonight. Again welcome to the forum, and no matter which design you go with I wish you luck and hope that you keep us updated on your decision and progress!
Completed Danny Greene "Chameleon" a 10 1/2' nesting/rowing/sailing dinghy. Building an Alexa's Rocket 15 w/ optional retractable spinnaker pole.

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