Classic 21 Express

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changeat44
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:49 pm

jacquesmm wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:04 pm
Matt Gent wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:54 pm

Among Bateau plans the FL26 or LB22 might be a better fit; other designers also offer semi-planing hull forms.
Thanks Matt, that is a better way to look at it.
Thanks Jacques and Matt for both your explanation regarding the efficiency of the C21 hull for my plans of use.

I appreciate both your efforts and totally understand what you mean.
Your absolutely right, for my plans of use other hulls might be more full efficient.

With this Onedin 650 I had a great time this summer:

Image

A (semi?) planning hull (totally not sure about that and absolutely not trying to be wise) with 9.9 hp 4-stroke high trust Yamaha.
900 kg displacement and max. 60 hp as specified by designer. More than enough room to sleep for two adults and a child and a lot of fun for low fuel costs.

Just for fun, here on YouTube you can see an Onedin 650 on plane with a Honda BF45, the hull is original but she is (too) heavy modified:
https://youtu.be/qkrIhnaryMI.

I really like the CX style above others and I'm sure I can get at least the same satisfaction as I got with the Onedin 650 (sold).

Of course they are two different boats, the Onedin is ugly compared by the CX, and... both hulls do have the same length but the C21 has 30 cm more beam then the Onedin and will be more stable. And I understand the wider beam makes the C21 less fuel efficient. Am I right?

When my boat will be finished I'll see how much Hp she will need to satisfy my boating style. I have no worries about that.

I'm sure about this build. I don't mind I will have less fuel efficiency or a slow boat as long as I have the boat that has the looks, size and comfort I want and need. I'm sure the CX21 has it for me!

I know, I'm stupid!
Last edited by changeat44 on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 6 times in total.



changeat44
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:02 pm

Bogieman wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:08 pm
Hi Daniel! Welcome to the forum and good luck with your build. It sounds like you have nice plans for your boat once she is finished. I love the name and the fact that you are naming her after your wife, who is supportive of your boat building dreams.

Bogie
Thanks Bogie,

I think, (one moment, ....looking around..... :D ) no I'm sure I would not be able to finish a build like this without the lovely support of my wife. She's always there when I need her. Been together for 20 years now.

Due to fibromyalgia my build will be very hard most days, I know in advance. But I take the time I need, no hurry. Slow and relaxed are the keywords for me, just like the low Hp I stated earlier

Daniel

Matt Gent
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by Matt Gent » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:51 am

If you were happy with the 10hp on that hull, the 20 on C21 will do just fine. I might shop for a "high thrust" or "big foot" similar unit with a larger gearcase / propeller area, will help with docking.

The extra beam will be very useful for camping and lounging about - long and narrow boats work well for what they are intended, but creature comforts are not high on the list. Plus shorter boats are easier / cheaper to trailer & dock.

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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:19 am

Matt Gent wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:51 am
If you were happy with the 10hp on that hull, the 20 on C21 will do just fine. I might shop for a "high thrust" or "big foot" similar unit with a larger gearcase / propeller area, will help with docking.

The extra beam will be very useful for camping and lounging about - long and narrow boats work well for what they are intended, but creature comforts are not high on the list. Plus shorter boats are easier / cheaper to trailer & dock.
Thanks Matt, that's exactly what I'm thinking.
Nice to hear from someone else I'm on the right track. That feels always good!

By the way, one litre unleaded fuel cost in The Netherlands 1,748 euro/ 1,931 USD.

Have a nice weekend!

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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:19 am

Yesterday I went with my son and wife to an old fishing village called "Urk". For me a 20 minutes drive. It used to be a small Island but it is impoldered since 1939. For those who like pictures.....

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Old and new together:

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Twin Yamaha 300 Hp

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When I came home this was delivered:
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Nice to read with candlelight, some nice old cheese and a good glass of old Port.

For more info about Urk (English language possible, see option to website): https://www.touristinfourk.nl/

Daniel

Jaysen
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by Jaysen » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:34 am

changeat44 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:19 am
Image
Cleanup in aisle “couch”.

That makes me all kinds of tingly in places a boat probably shouldn’t make tingle. That fat beam has to make for a lumpy ride. Any idea how many tons it holds? Still active on the fishing grounds?
Visit my official Class Globe 580 build blog at https://jaysenodell.com/globe-580
Currently starting a build of "Lil Bit More". A Class Mini 5.80
Class Mini 580 welcome post.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

Fuzz
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by Fuzz » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:55 am

Love the old boat pictures. Old work boats show what will last and survive out on the ocean.

changeat44
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:19 pm

Hi Jaysen and Fuzz,

These old wooden boats are called a "Botter".
Most Botters are made from oak and they where used to fish in the "Zuiderzee", now known as "Het IJsselmeer" and "de Waddenzee".
"Botters" can easy weigh more then 30 tons.

I'm not familiar with this one, but the oldest one still around is the "Botter ZS13" (more info: http://www.zs13.nl/).
She's build in 1870 and has as a length of 13,8 meters and a beam of 4,2 meters:
Image

These original old boats are getting rare, The ZS13 has totally been restored by volunteers. She was almost eaten by mold.
She now an official monument and she sails for toerists.

You can also hire "Botters" for a few hours sailing.

Nowadays they use these boats in several sizes for actif duty:
Image

Daniel

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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by Jaysen » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:06 pm

Bah! If I had a set of brass ones (and the wife let me) I’d go over there and sail those things just to keep the tradition alive. But, as Fuzz can attest, my brass gets green when the seas get lumpy.

Damn those things would make for one roomy live on. Too bad the worms would eat them where it’s warm.

Thanks for the pics. Gives me something to dream about.
Visit my official Class Globe 580 build blog at https://jaysenodell.com/globe-580
Currently starting a build of "Lil Bit More". A Class Mini 5.80
Class Mini 580 welcome post.
My already completed 'Lil Bit'. A Martens Goosen V12 set up to sail me to the fishing holes.
Jaysen wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:44 pm
I tried to say something but God thought I was wrong and filled my mouth with saltwater. I kept my pie hole shut after that.

changeat44
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Re: Classic 21 Express "Sweet Esmaralda"

Post by changeat44 » Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:02 am

Hello boatbuilding friends,

I’ve read a lot on this forum and really enjoy all of your stories. Often I read about the different struggles and uncertainties when it comes to building and making the right choices. I learn a lot from the interesting (sometimes difficult) journeys others make.

Let me tell you what happened to me for the last two weeks:

I was convinced that I would and COULD build the CX21. Now I’m convinced I have to build another design and I can say (after several days thinking and a few drinks) that I’m very happy with the outcome:

The CX21 that I wanted to build has about the same proportions as the boat I have had during this summer, the Onedin 650.
I was satisfied with that old boat despite it was slightly underpowered with the 9.9 Yamaha on the big lakes.

My CX21 budget is almost eaten up because a lot of things happened here the past two weeks. Fortunately most things where positive but needed a lot of money, guess what… there goes three quarters of my boatbuilding-money, bye bye.
I don’t mind, the money goes in needs of my family (family always first), but I have to reconsider my choices.
I’m not a rich guy and have to (financial) work with what I have. I don’t see a lot of extra money coming to me for the next few years and I absolutely don’t want to start a project I could know in advance it will fail due to lack of finances.

So, comfortable AND economical cruising it must be.
Fuel costs are raising here due to stupid changing climat-rules and there are already places (like Amsterdam) you may not use a 2-stroke engine anymore.

That’s why I eventually wanted to make the CX21 a hybrid or full electrical one, because I think I will be cheaper at the end, at least here in The Netherlands.
Of course this only counts when you stay low powered, otherwise it will be much more expensive than a petrol engine.

I need to stay at least at a 19 footer, otherwise I don’t have enough room for two adults comfortable cruising for extended time. And it must be a displacement hull so I can eventually (maybe years later, I have to save money for that) power it with a Torqeedo Cruise 2.0 or 4.0 (prices start at 3618 USD for the 2.0 long shaft with remote control, no powercells included).

Also, I smaller size boat will of course result in lower power costs, lower mooring costs, smaller trailer (single axe), lower storage costs, and so on……. Sometimes the difference is small, but overall it will be much cheaper.

There is only one design that fits my ‘new’ needs and that’s the HMD19. Comfortable and low powered cruising (perfect for the Torqeedo). Yes, it is a totally other design of what I intended to build in the first place, but I never studied this design because I thought it would be to small.
But after reading all the topics and questions regarding this design I’m convinced this design is perfect after a few changes.

I already purchased the HMD19 plans and studied them. I’m sure I can make this work and build my “Sweet Esmaralda” , only smaller and with a better economical fit!

I want to thank all of you for your help me on this topic, very appreciated! This forum is a very friendly and educational place to start and fulfill your boating dream.

I will continue my dream and start a new topic for building the HMD19.
I've already ordered the wood for making the 1:5 model first.

Daniel

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