V10 weight

Boats up to 15' for oars, power or sail. Please include the boat type in your question.
User avatar
zack
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 am

V10 weight

Post by zack » Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:45 am

I have purchased V10 dingy plans. The specs indicate a hull weight of 85 lbs. The plywood available at Home Depot / Lowes is BCX pine. This weighs 29 lbs for a 1/4" sheet, 44 lbs for 3/8”. My estimate for the finished boat will weigh is:<BR><BR>1/4“ Plywood 47 sqft 43 lbs<BR>3/8 plywood 16 sqft 22 lbs<BR>Cleats 1” x 1” x 35’ 8 lbs<BR>Epoxy 30 lbs<BR>Paint / misc. hardware 5 lbs<BR><BR>This totals 108 lbs and is a bit more than I anticipated. I want to car top the boat and be able to handle it alone.<BR><BR>1. Does my weight estimate seem reasonable / accurate ?<BR><BR>2. What type of plywood was assumed for the 85 lb spec weight?<BR><BR>3. How much weight savings should I expect if I used ACX fir? Does anyone know what a sheet of fir plywood weighs?<BR><BR>4. Has anyone built a V10 using pine or fir plywood and do they have an actual weight for their completed boat?<BR><BR>I am looking forward to building the boat, but need to get the weight down, or buy some exercise equipment and start bulking up. Thanks for any help you can give me.<BR>



User avatar
jacquesmm
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 27338
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

V10 weight

Post by jacquesmm » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:38 pm

- We calculate with Okume, Lauan is even lighter. Fir is much heavier.<BR>- we calculate the exact plywood area, not the whole sheet<BR>- the kit maybe 30 lbs but there is a waste: you need 2 gallons of resin but because of resin packaging, it is cheaper to buy 3. Years ago, the BOM showed 2 gallons and we had too many questions about the discrepancy between the kit and the BOM but I can build that boat with 1.5 gallons. The weight is based on 2 gallons.<BR>- what are those 8 lbs cleats? The little cleats are 1 or 2 lbs max.<BR>- paint and hardware are not included, hull only.<BR><BR>Just to show that 85lbs for 10´ is reasonable:<BR>Jim Michalak 14, Roar II = 72 lbs<BR>O´Brien Meghan 10´ 2" = 75 lbs<BR>Dudley Dix 10´ Argie 10 = 64 lbs<BR>Glen-L 10 (sial) = 88 lbs<BR><BR>85 lbs is correct. If weight is a concern, invest in some nice marine ply like Okume and do as good a lamination job as possible. A first time builder will make an heavier boat.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

User avatar
Laszlo
* Bateau Builder *
* Bateau Builder *
Posts: 770
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 1:00 am
Contact:

V10 weight

Post by Laszlo » Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:39 pm

Hi Zack,<BR><BR>Good numbers. Back on the old board there was a statement that okoume was assumed for weight purposes.<BR><BR>http://amateurboatbuilding.com/forum/re ... ><BR>There were also discussions about wood weight with the following statements:<BR><BR>Yellow pine = 41 lb/ cubic ft<BR>Douglas fir = 34 lb/ cubic ft<BR>Okuome = 24 lb / cubic ft<BR><BR>Jacques, how about putting these numbers onto the plywood portion of the FAQ?<BR><BR>Laszlo<BR><BR><BR>

User avatar
zack
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 am

V10 weight

Post by zack » Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:49 pm

Thanks for the prompt resposes.<BR><BR>I did not intend to imply the your estimated weight were unreasonable. I am just trying to figure what I am going to end up with at the end of the project.<BR><BR>My weight estimate is based on the area of plywood used. I sketched the components in CAD and calculated areas.<BR><BR>If I am careful with the epoxy it looks like I can save a few pounds. What should 2 gal of epoxy plus filler and tape weigh? 20 lb maybe? I am a first time stitch and glue builder, but am generally pretty careful.<BR><BR>For the cleats, 1"x1"x35´ comes to .24 cuft. At 30#/cu.ft, that´s about 7.5 lbs. That´s probably twice whats needed, so 3-4 pounds may be more reasonable.<BR><BR>It also looks like fir plywood will save a few pounds.<BR><BR>Since one of the stitch and glue selling points is that boats can be built using exterior plywood, weight estimates for boats constructed with fir or pine would be helpful. Just a thought.<BR><BR>Thanks again for your help. I´ll let you know how the project proceeds.

User avatar
agiannelia
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:00 am
Location: TORONTO

V10 weight

Post by agiannelia » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:02 am

I am in the final stages of building a sailing V10 and I used okoume, but for my own reasons, chose to add a few items to the design and will weigh it shortly. I will letyou know what mine weighs in at. I believe I´m at about 100 lbs without rigging.<BR><BR>My extras are:<BR><BR><BR>1) Extra 6mm ply on existing 9mm transom because I want to tow it and that´s what the instructions call for<BR><BR>2) A bouyancy compartment, plus a storage area in the foredeck where the bouyancy compartment top is at the same level as the original bow seat.<BR><BR>3) My mast step ended up being a bit bigger than called in the plans and to mate the ply to the curved hull, I used lots of filler.<BR><BR>4) I used 4 oz glass on the exterior including the foredeck<BR><BR>5) I laminated a small ash splash rail which is not called for but kept the mast partner doubler which is called for.<BR><BR>To lighten it, I tried to use microballoons wherever I did not require structural strength, I used 6mm ply for the second lamination on the transom and for the foredeck. I also cut two lightening holes in the midseat transom.<BR><BR>I believe my fillets are a bit heavier than what I saw on other web pages and think that´s where you can save the most weight. Mine were that thick because I used steel wire drilled 3/8 in from the edge and wanted the material covered up. As I improved my injection techniques, my fillets became progressively cleaner and smaller without compromising strength I feel.<BR><BR>The images on my digital camera produce 300K plus JPG´s so I can´t easily post them here, but can send you a few off line if you like.<BR><BR>My greatest time consumer was setting the cleats for the seats. That seemed to consume a lot of time and material. I would think it through completely differently the next time.<BR><BR>My thought is what I am doing with my transom knees and simply fillet the bottom sides rather than use cleats. I don´t know what Jacques thinks, but he is the designer and he certainly knows how to build these things<BR><BR>Alex
Alex_G

User avatar
zack
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 am

V10 weight

Post by zack » Tue Mar 18, 2003 11:53 am

Alex:<BR><BR>I would really like to see your pictures. Email: <a href="mailto:zackbrown@earthlink.net" target="_new">zackbrown@earthlink.net</a><BR><BR>The building instructions call for the breasthook and knees to be glued w/ tape or cleats an option. I intended to glue them and add a fillet underneath, no tape. I don´t think this is a departure from the design.<BR><BR>I plan tack welding the panels and removing the ties before filleting. I am determined to make the fillets as small as possible.<BR><BR>Since I am using fir plywood whick is stronger and stiffer than okume, I am considering using 1/4" for the bow and stern seat tops. I expermented with scraps and it seemes stiff enough for seats. I am planning to install the bow seat according to the rowing version with a removable mast partner. Jacquesmm, how will this effect the strength of the design. The boat will be rowed and sometimes sailed in light air. No plans for outboard.<BR><BR>Zack

User avatar
jacquesmm
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 27338
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

V10 weight

Post by jacquesmm » Tue Mar 18, 2003 12:03 pm

<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>On 2003-03-18 11:53, zack wrote:<BR>The building instructions call for the breasthook and knees to be glued w/ tape or cleats an option. I intended to glue them and add a fillet underneath, no tape. I don´t think this is a departure from the design.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR>No, that is perfect.<BR><BR><!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I plan tack welding the panels and removing the ties before filleting. I am determined to make the fillets as small as possible.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR>Excellent: nice small fillets look good but don´t make smaller than 1/2" wide.<BR><!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Since I am using fir plywood whick is stronger and stiffer than okume, I am considering using 1/4" for the bow and stern seat tops. I expermented with scraps and it seemes stiff enough for seats. <BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR>Fir is stiffer but not stronger, Okume is stronger. be ready for a struggle at the bow. Lauan and Okume bend nicely there but fir requires more work.<BR><BR><!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am planning to install the bow seat according to the rowing version with a removable mast partner. Jacquesmm, how will this effect the strength of the design. The boat will be rowed and sometimes sailed in light air. No plans for outboard.<BR><BR>Zack<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End --><BR>As long as it is light air sailing, no problem. With a self standing mast, the "bury", the length between partner and mast step, should be as long as possible. Shorter is weaker: it´s a cantilever.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

User avatar
zack
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 am

V10 weight

Post by zack » Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:17 pm

I was planning to have a removable 3/4" thick mast partner mounted at the sheer line. I noticed other builder have done this so the bow seat is usable when rowing. Do you know if anybody has had problems with this modification?<BR><BR>Other than a little more bounce in the seats, will 1/4" ply on the bow and stern seats significantly affect the strength, stiffiness or performance of the design?<BR><BR>I know fir is more difficult to work with. I previously built a Glen-L 14 with fir. It took quite a while to slowly bend the sheer, chine and panels. Are the curves on the V-10 comparable to a Glen-L 14? <BR><BR>Zack

User avatar
jacquesmm
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 27338
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

V10 weight

Post by jacquesmm » Tue Mar 18, 2003 2:14 pm

The removable mast partner is a good idea.<BR><BR>1/4" is very thin for seat tops, you may need to glue battens underneath for stiffness. The stiffness of the ull is not affected because it the epoxy seams who provide the longitudinal stiffness.<BR><BR>I don´t know about the bending radius for the Glen-L but of all our boats, the V10 and V12 have the smallest bending radii. Many builders used fir but it requires patience: you may have to wait overnight for the panels to take their shape.
Jacques Mertens - Designer
http://bateau.com

User avatar
zack
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2003 1:00 am

V10 weight

Post by zack » Tue Mar 18, 2003 5:50 pm

Thanks for all your help. I think now that I have studied it to death, I´m ready to start building. <BR><BR>Zack<BR>

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Rogerogrant and 3 guests